Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:35:37 -0400
From: RUBEN FIGUEROA
To: ALL
Subject: Nav
Newsgroups: win.navigator
Message-ID: <1036424755.34.0@winserver.com>
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 10

Hi Hector, one improvement could be the new messages flag in each
conference to know the difference between private and public so that new messages indicated would not show when it's private and not available to
you.


Cheers,

Wayne
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Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:06:27 -0400
From: RUBEN FIGUEROA
To: WAYNE TIMBS
Subject: RE: Nav
Newsgroups: win.navigator
Message-ID: <1036424757.34.937182937@winserver.com>
X-WcMsg-Attr: Rcvd
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 18


On Sep 12, 1999 08:35pm, WAYNE TIMBS wrote to HECTOR SANTOS:

Hi Hector, one improvement could be the new messages flag in each conference to know the difference between private and public so that new messages indicated would not show when it's private and not available to you.

I read this four times, and I don't understand what you mean by this. :-)

If its not available to you, how can it be a new message? How would
you know its there anyway.

Whats the basic problem? Whats the "relationship" of private/public
in regards to NEW messges presented to you? Are you just trying
to say that you want to know in the MESSAGE LIST whether is private
or public mail?
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Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:48:44 -0400
From: RUBEN FIGUEROA
To: ALL
Subject: RE: Nav
Newsgroups: win.navigator
Message-ID: <1036424769.34.0@winserver.com>
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 41

Hi Hector, one improvement could be the new messages flag in each conference to know the difference between private and public so

that new WT> messages indicated would not show when it's private and
not available to WT> you.

I read this four times, and I don't understand what you mean by this.
:-)

If its not available to you, how can it be a new message? How would
you know its there anyway.

Whats the basic problem? Whats the "relationship" of private/public
in regards to NEW messges presented to you? Are you just trying
to say that you want to know in the MESSAGE LIST whether is private
or public mail?

Covered this in another conference, when someone was posting "Reset
pointer" messages.

wcNav shows which conferences have new mail by showing the conference
name in bold. Apparently this is triggered by comparing the high message
number in the conference with the last-read marker.

However, if the only messages after your last-read marker are message
you don't have read rights to (private mail not to/from you), then when
you open the conference listed in bold there's nothing new there for you
to read. To make matters worse, the conference stays bold the next time
you log in, even if there haven't been any new mail (since there wasn't anything you were allowed to read, your last-read marker wasn't
updated, so it's still lower than the high message number).

Improved logic would have wcNav (or the server -- whichever end does
this) compare the last-read marker to the high message number, and
*THEN* start checking to see if any of the "new" messages are visible to
this user. As soon as it finds one, it can mark the conference bold
(there's new mail that's visible to this user). If it gets to the high
message pointer without finding one (all the new messages aren't
visible to this user because they're private and he can't read private
mail), then it wouldn't mark the conference bold.
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Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:58:30 -0400
From: RUBEN FIGUEROA
To: EARL BORAH
Subject: RE: Nav
Newsgroups: win.navigator
Message-ID: <1036424773.34.937198124@winserver.com>
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 71

Whats the basic problem?

However, if the only messages after your last-read marker are message
you don't have read rights to (private mail not to/from you), then when
you open the conference listed in bold there's nothing new there for you
to read.

Is this a matter of "False Mail Indication"?

Improved logic would have wcNav (or the server -- whichever end does
this) compare the last-read marker to the high message number, and
*THEN* start checking to see if any of the "new" messages are visible to this user.

Nahh, that would DRASTICALLY slow down the system.

There is simply isn't any way to solve this problem in an OPTIMAL
manner.

We can probably say that IDEALLY there should be additional visual
information:

GREY - nothing
RED - New Mail (Includes Direct Mail)
BLACK - New Mail (No Direct Mail)

The RED is easy. There is a DIRECT MAIL indicator that.

But to see if there a new readable mail in a CONFERENCE, that
would DRASTICALLY slow down the system. BIG TIME!

A regular user would have a NORMALIZED system, meaning that
the differences between the highs and the lows would not
be large. Hence it "could be" bearable.

But in a large mail system where there LOTS of new mail and
you don't call regularily, it will KILL him.

Again, there is a Last Read for that user. Whats in between
that LAST READ and the HIGH MARK, is completely UNKNOWN.

I'm not going to change the logic to READ the messages for
each and every conference listing just to get ACCURATE
indicator.

The best that can be done is to have some "smarts" built
into the system such as:

PRIVATE MAIL ONLY CONFERFENCE:

Automatically set pointer to HIGH for user or to
the first DIRECT message.

PUBLIC ONLY:

Nothing has to be done. Its perfect as it is.

PRIVATE/PUBLIC:

Automatically set pointer to the FIRST DIRECT or
the FIRST NEW PUBLIC message whichever is the
the lowest.

With this logic, a COLOR system can be use and be
100% accurate.

But this isn't going to happen now. This would be
most definitely a WINS2000 exploration concept.

--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
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Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 03:49:05 -0400
From: RUBEN FIGUEROA
To: ALL
Subject: RE: Nav
Newsgroups: win.navigator
Message-ID: <1036424778.34.0@winserver.com>
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 20

Hi Hector, one improvement could be the new messages flag in each conference to know the difference between private and public so that

new

messages indicated would not show when it's private and not available

to

you.

I read this four times, and I don't understand what you mean by this. :-)

in regards to NEW messges presented to you? Are you just trying

Hi Hector, to experience this turn off your sysop ability to read all
messages and then when someone writes a private message to someone else, in the Nav message client it will show in bold that that conference has a new
message in it that since you can't read it the conference will remain bold as there is new message in it till someone post a message later than the private one that you can read that changes the new message flag. This is the reason I post a public reset message in some conferences that don't get much traffic
to get rid of the new message indicator.

Cheers,

Wayne
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Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 05:06:08 -0400
From: RUBEN FIGUEROA
To: ALL
Subject: RE: Nav
Newsgroups: win.navigator
Message-ID: <1036424782.34.0@winserver.com>
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 18

On Sep 12, 1999 08:35pm, WAYNE TIMBS wrote to HECTOR SANTOS:

Hi Hector, one improvement could be the new messages flag in each conference to know the difference between private and public so that

new

messages indicated would not show when it's private and not available

to

you.

I read this four times, and I don't understand what you mean by this. :-)

If its not available to you, how can it be a new message? How would
you know its there anyway.

I think he means how wcNav will show a conference bolded that has new
messages in it that are not available to you because they are private messages to
someone else.

Perry
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
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Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:10:53 -0400
From: RUBEN FIGUEROA
To: ALL
Subject: RE: Nav
Newsgroups: win.navigator
Message-ID: <1036424797.34.0@winserver.com>
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 38

On Sep 12, 1999 08:35pm, WAYNE TIMBS wrote to HECTOR SANTOS:

Hi Hector, one improvement could be the new messages flag in each conference to know the difference between private and public so

that new WT> messages indicated would not show when it's private and
not available to WT> you.

I read this four times, and I don't understand what you mean by this.
:-)

If its not available to you, how can it be a new message? How would
you know its there anyway.

Whats the basic problem? Whats the "relationship" of private/public
in regards to NEW messges presented to you? Are you just trying
to say that you want to know in the MESSAGE LIST whether is private
or public mail?

Here is the problem, when I open up wcNAV message client and it list all
of the echos some are bold(new messages are present) or not bold(no new messages). What happens is when I go into a bold message area there
should be new messages for me to see. If the message was set to private
and is the last message in that echo then I will continue to get this
bold status because I cannot read the message that is triggering the
bold to be on. So when the message client scans for new messages in the
echo, it also needs to check whether or not I have access to read it and
if not then don't bold the echo as having new mail in it for me to read.
It seems that the message client only looks at my last read pointer
instead of really finding out if I read all the mail I can in that echo.

Hope this makes sense! :)




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Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:41:40 -0400
From: RUBEN FIGUEROA
To: EARL BORAH
Subject: RE: Nav
Newsgroups: win.navigator
Message-ID: <1036424799.34.937240059@winserver.com>
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 38

Here's the code I use in the custom htmlutil-msg I made for WMP:

// MY ADDITION - check for unread messages

if SearchMessageById(c, GetLastRead(c), msg) then
if msg.id > GetLastRead(c) then
// Last read was deleted, but there's a newer message
TemplateSetVariable("confnew", str(TRUE))
else // Last read found, look for next
TemplateSetVariable("confnew", str(GetNextMessage(msg)))
end if
else // Last read was deleted, can't find newer message
TemplateSetVariable("confnew", str(FALSE))
end if

// END ADDITION

Just a clarification.

The theory is that this code wouldn't slow down things too much more
than they are now. There are a maximum of 3 server calls (GetLastRead, SearchMessageById, and GetNextMessage) in the code. The GetNextMessage
isn't called under all circumstances, so often there are only 2 server
calls.

From the way wcNav behaves I assume you're already doing two calls
(GetLastRead and GetHighMessageNumber), so it's really a maximum of one
extra call to the server. I'm not sure how much load SearchMessageById
and GetNextMessage generate compared to just GetHighMessageNumber, so
all things may not be equal, but it's still a pretty compact piece of
code.


I intentionally made this as compact as possible, with as few server
calls as possible. What do you think?
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
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Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:13:49 -0400
From: RUBEN FIGUEROA
To: EARL BORAH
Subject: RE: Nav
Newsgroups: win.navigator
Message-ID: <1036424804.34.937255300@winserver.com>
X-Mailer: Wildcat! Interactive Net Server v7.0.454.5
Lines: 15


On Sep 13, 1999 04:41pm, EARL BORAH wrote to HECTOR SANTOS:

Here's the code I use in the custom htmlutil-msg I made for WMP:

Just a clarification.

Sorry, but that logic isn't going to be used here.

Please don't make a spectacle out of this too. Besides I asked
for MINOR issues. This isn't minor.

Thanks

--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
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Ruben,

Thanks for the walk down memory lane. :)

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* Origin: Cyberia BBS | cyberiabbs.zapto.org | San Jose, CA (1:106/324)

|10On 01 Feb 2019, Gryphon said the following...|10

Ruben,

Thanks for the walk down memory lane. :)

Too many people to apologize too. Hopefully it is fixed.

Ruben Figueroa aka Zazz
Mystic Prison Board Sysop
telnet://pb.darktech.org:24
Web: www.rdfig.net

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