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A Tale of Broken Behavior
By Janis Kracht, 1:261/38

As some of you know, I'm pretty busy with family these days,
helping to take care of Ron's 97 yr. old aunt who we took in a
few years ago.. She's a sweetheart who fell again recently and
broke her hip for the second time.

This is the main reason I resigned as ZC1 a year or so ago ...
but now and again I do have time to peruse the echos to see
'what's going on' in echos like fidonews. I must say I find it
hilarious that an overly righteous few still insist on flaming
the previous ZC1 for perceived injustices when it comes to
defending their 'pals'...

A case of Roy Witt's behavior in the echos towards people like
ZC2 is a case in point. The two of them seemed to get along
just fine late in Roy's life... though Roy did not like Ward as
I understand it.. I can guess the feeling was mutual, though I
don't really know.

So what do I see in the current echos? Flames being tossed in
my direction because I "did nothing" to stop Roy - from what
exactly, I wonder?

And moreso I wonder what our current ZC would do if Roy were
still alive and posted some inappropriate graphic for instance.
Would Nick have removed Roy's node number for bad-mouthing or
insulting his buddy? Curious minds want to know :)










FIDOGAZETTE Vol 13 No 43 Page 3 October 30, 2019


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--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

On 30 Oct 19 21:40:20, Janis Kracht said the following to All:

And moreso I wonder what our current ZC would do if Roy were
still alive and posted some inappropriate graphic for instance.
Would Nick have removed Roy's node number for bad-mouthing or
insulting his buddy? Curious minds want to know :)

If the current ZC had existed when Roy was alive, he would first ensure there is a reliable nodelist, followed by not perpetuating zone-wars, followed by ensuring something called "checks and balances". That means, having an IC.

Any Sysop who engages in a continued pattern of antagonistic trolling
behavior towards another Sysop and/or behavior which many Sysops would view as detrimental to the enjoyment of the hobby, or sends messages which can be construed as hate-speech in the country of the destination.... could qualify as a complaint under the Excessively Annoying behavior clause of Policy.

The antagonist faced with this type of complaint will very likely take it all the way to the highest order... and with no highest-order, the complaint falls flat as the ZCC debates policy intepretation like its Sunday bible class.

So Roy could not be booted anymore than Bjorn could be not booted for all the nonstop anti-USA crap. The lack of a set of checks-and-balances made the ultimate destination of such complaint impossible to process without a resulting impeachment of the ZC by friends/fans/disciples of the antagonist.

Now there is a correct set of checks and balances... all of the ZCC voted unanimous for checks and balances. The IC cannot abuse his position, I cannot abuse mine, nor can any other ZC... Not even Manuel from the Twilight Zone. Everything is back in place to properly handle policy matters.

And oddly enough the level of trolling has dropped recently. You're welcome.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

I must say I find it
hilarious that an overly righteous few still insist on flaming
the previous ZC1 for perceived injustices when it comes to
defending their 'pals'...

[...]

So what do I see in the current echos? Flames being tossed in
my direction because I "did nothing" to stop Roy - from what
exactly, I wonder?

And moreso I wonder what our current ZC would do if Roy were
still alive and posted some inappropriate graphic for instance.
Would Nick have removed Roy's node number for bad-mouthing or
insulting his buddy? Curious minds want to know :)

To me it sounds like the IC/ZC/(RC) structure has failed. How did Fidonet go from "cooperative anarchy" to GoT-style fuckups, where the interest of the rulers and their stupid games plays such a central role?

When will we finally get rid of this organizational insanity?


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: :nigirO * (2:280/464.47)

On 01 Nov 19 10:33:27, Oli said the following to Janis Kracht:

To me it sounds like the IC/ZC/(RC) structure has failed. How did Fidonet go from "cooperative anarchy" to GoT-style fuckups, where the interest of the rulers and their stupid games plays such a central role?

Current IC/ZC/RC relations are actually good, segments are cooperatively exchanged at all levels to form the Nodelist, even the Fidonews goes out on time. No fuckups, games or frowny face sad puppies to be found anywhere.

Things just sortof died down and became quiet as of summer last year. Now overall Fido is just a lot of test messages, the usual Mystic/Synchronet/Linux banter, and some really good recipes from time to time. The only person making noise is the current troll in Fidonews, only because it became too quiet in there with no more zone-war. And even the troll is getting bored now...

If its all doom and gloom, do something about it... there are no rulers, only people wearing hats that can be removed at any time. Checks and balances.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hi Oli,

I must say I find it
hilarious that an overly righteous few still insist on flaming
the previous ZC1 for perceived injustices when it comes to
defending their 'pals'...

[...]

So what do I see in the current echos? Flames being tossed in
my direction because I "did nothing" to stop Roy - from what
exactly, I wonder?

And moreso I wonder what our current ZC would do if Roy were
still alive and posted some inappropriate graphic for instance.
Would Nick have removed Roy's node number for bad-mouthing or
insulting his buddy? Curious minds want to know :)

To me it sounds like the IC/ZC/(RC) structure has failed. How did Fidonet go from "cooperative anarchy" to GoT-style fuckups, where the interest of the rulers and their stupid games plays such a central role?

When will we finally get rid of this organizational insanity?

Good question, Oli. I guess we work around them... ignoring them and trying to fix what they break where we can.

Take care,
Janis

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

Hi Nick,

Things just sortof died down and became quiet as of summer last year. Now
overall Fido is just a lot of test messages, the usual Mystic/Synchronet/Linux >banter, and some really good recipes from time to time. The only person making
noise is the current troll in Fidonews, only because it became too quiet in there with no more zone-war. And even the troll is getting bored now...

That is essentially how it was the entire time I held the Z1C position.. except
for early on when Ward decided he didn't want Malcolm Miles as IC and invented a new counting method for the ZCC.. it was a trip.. perhaps I can find messages
here that detail the method.

That whole episode is ancient history to me, and Ward and I got past it, btw.

If its all doom and gloom, do something about it... there are no rulers, only people wearing hats that can be removed at any time. Checks and balances.

Cool... Are you saying you are going to ask the Z1 RCs for an election for a new ZC at some point? No? How about a confirmation vote.. :) Failing that, how about a note in FN_SYSOP or anywhere stating how long you plan to hold the seat?

Take care,
Janis

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

On 01 Nov 19 22:31:58, Janis Kracht said the following to Nick Andre:

noise is the current troll in Fidonews, only because it became too quiet in there with no more zone-war. And even the troll is getting bored now...

That is essentially how it was the entire time I held the Z1C position..

So the zone-wars and Fidonews censorship never happened during your tenure?

Cool... Are you saying you are going to ask the Z1 RCs for an election for new ZC at some point? No? How about a confirmation vote.. :) Failing tha how about a note in FN_SYSOP or anywhere stating how long you plan to hold

These sort of comments and the article you posted makes me wonder why you resigned in the first place. Seems like you really miss wearing the hat.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hi Nick,

noise is the current troll in Fidonews, only because it became too quiet in >> there with no more zone-war. And even the troll is getting bored now...

That is essentially how it was the entire time I held the Z1C position..

So the zone-wars

In my opinion calling what happened with Malcolm Miles as IC was unfortunate, but hardly a zone war. What are you deeming a Zone War exactly?

and Fidonews censorship never happened during your tenure?

Fidonews was not 'censored', another was produced alongside the original. Ross Cassell grew sick and tired of no content and no activity of any kind in the original (except for a once-in-a-great-while post by Ward or Michel). Ross asked me to make another, so I did with my own software. I stopped creating it
after a time. Mea Culpa. The 'snooze is still essentially dead however.

Cool... Are you saying you are going to ask the Z1 RCs for an election for >> new ZC at some point? No? How about a confirmation vote.. :) Failing tha >> how about a note in FN_SYSOP or anywhere stating how long you plan to hold

These sort of comments and the article you posted makes me wonder why you resigned in the first place. Seems like you really miss wearing the hat.

Nonsense. I _still_ have no time for such things which is why I resigned in the first place.

You still haven't answered my question as to how long you figure to wear the hat?

Take care,
Janis

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

On 02 Nov 19 21:08:22, Janis Kracht said the following to Nick Andre:

In my opinion calling what happened with Malcolm Miles as IC was unfortunat but hardly a zone war. What are you deeming a Zone War exactly?

The neverending flame-fest between this zone and zone 2 which abruptly stopped the moment I wore the hat...

and Fidonews censorship never happened during your tenure?

Fidonews was not 'censored', another was produced alongside the original. R

The Fidonews *echo* was certainly censored in this zone by the NAB, of which you are a member of.

Nonsense. I _still_ have no time for such things which is why I resigned i the first place.

You seemingly have the time to still run Filegate / NAB operation, post articles, engage this thread, etc.

You still haven't answered my question as to how long you figure to wear th hat?

How long did you wear yours?

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hi Nick,

The Fidonews *echo* was certainly censored in this zone by the NAB, of which you are a member of.

I was... so were 2 others, 1 of whom left, and another who died. I expect you know what meshed systems are.

Nonsense. I _still_ have no time for such things which is why I resigned in >> the first place.

You seemingly have the time to still run Filegate / NAB operation, post articles, engage this thread, etc.

I do. I've been doing it for years with background jobs/scripts. I rarely have much to send out in files these days. Most is automated as you know.

You still haven't answered my question as to how long you figure to wear the >> hat?

How long did you wear yours?

Less years than ZC4, ZC3 and ZC2.

Take care,
Janis

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

Janis,

How long did you wear yours?

Less years than ZC4, ZC3 and ZC2.

Hmmm ...

You 2001-01-19 -> 2018-07-06 ... 17 years 6 months
ZC3 2010-02-12 -> now .......... 9 years 10 months
ZC4 2007-09-07 -> now .......... 12 years 2 months

So first of all you served longer than ZC3 and ZC4.

ZC2 1994-10-21 -> now .......... 25 years 2 weeks

During those 25 years ZC2 resigned twice and called for fully fledged elections
which he won both. Not just asking around to the RCs if they wanted an election.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards (2:292/854)

During those 25 years ZC2 resigned twice and called for fully fledged elections which he won both. Not just asking around to the RCs if they wanted an election.

There is no need to ask the RCs if they want an election. That up to the
RCs themselves. If there is a need (even just a desire) for a new ZC they
just do it.

Last year the RCs here in Z1 gave the nodes of Z1 a voice in an election
for ZC.

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- MagickaBBS v0.13alpha (Linux/x86_64)
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

That is essentially how it was the entire time I held the Z1C
position.. except for early on when Ward decided he didn't want
Malcolm Miles as IC and invented a new counting method for the ZCC..
it was a trip.. perhaps I can find messages here that detail the
method.

You mean the method that was published in Fidonews 17 May 2004?
(FNEWSL20.ZIP / FIDO2120.NWS)

"The votes cast by ZCC-members to reach a majority will be a function
of the percentage of listed individual sysops in the weekly nodelist
issued by the IC. [...]

Using this methodology the ZCC votes will as of immediately be
weighted as follows:

ZC1 : 07 votes
ZC2 : 89 votes
ZC3 : 01 votes
ZC4 : 01 votes
ZC5 : 01 votes
ZC6 : 01 votes

Making a total of 100 votes."


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: * nigirO (2:280/464.47)

That is essentially how it was the entire time I held the Z1C
position.. except for early on when Ward decided he didn't want
Malcolm Miles as IC and invented a new counting method for the ZCC..
it was a trip.. perhaps I can find messages here that detail the
method.

You mean the method that was published in Fidonews 17 May 2004?
(FNEWSL20.ZIP / FIDO2120.NWS)

"The votes cast by ZCC-members to reach a majority will be a function
of the percentage of listed individual sysops in the weekly nodelist
issued by the IC. [...]

Using this methodology the ZCC votes will as of immediately be
weighted as follows:

ZC1 : 07 votes
ZC2 : 89 votes
ZC3 : 01 votes
ZC4 : 01 votes
ZC5 : 01 votes
ZC6 : 01 votes

Making a total of 100 votes."

Yes.

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)