I really am not surprised that a simple question (which in my defense was an honest attempt to fix the broken fidonet.org dns nodelist distribution) has turned into the fidonet of old, bickering and disagreements over, what really is, stupid shit that grown up shouldn't be arguing over.

What care who did what with what nodelist list when. All that really matters
is that there is a nodelist that is produced and is somewhat accurate. It doesn't matter which ZC does it and if it's done daily or weekly.

Good God people. Ward recently posted about the declining number of nodes in Fidonet on another echo. No wonder, when this stupid petty shit is still happening. There are othernets that are flourishing with growth, not surprising, why would anyone want to weed into this cesspool of finger
pointing and bickering.

|15frank |08// |15netsurge
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Frank,

What care who did what with what nodelist list when.

I do, because we (ZC2 3 and 4) had to deal with a ZONE1 segment of which there was no predicting what was going to be in it for over a year prior to Nick's arrival.

Your own situation flip-flopped during that period with the nodelist of Z1 containing the correct information while the ZONE1-segment distributed to the other zones contained another situation. You guys overthere were OK and felt no
need to worry (or complain), but we had to worry "what are we going to get this
week?" ZC1's software did pick some random outdated REGION-segments for us and the sole reason why it worked was because there was no growth, only people leaving and little to no mutations. So even bad REGION-segments provided most of the correct information. But not all of it. ZC1 was being kept aware but was
unable to deal with.

That situation stopped instantly the very day Nick took over. Concurrently, immediately also the zone warz stopped ... what made that happen? Well, the only parameter changing was another ZC1 at the helm.

For the record, just ask Nick where he got most of the help to get crash-started as a ZC1...

There are othernets that are flourishing with growth, not
surprising, why would anyone want to weed into this cesspool of finger pointing and bickering.

Show me the othernets Frank ... I don't believe the first syllable of it.

Fidonet will be vanishing because of the outdated concept and no technological renewal. At the moment it's just a bunch of older guys 'n galls keeping it duct-taped together and getting some fun out of it. But there's no attraction for the masses, none of my 4 kids ever took the bait and I now see my 9yr old granddaughter who discovered language- and computer classes on YouTube. She is teaching herself to program ... Impossible to do in a Fidonet environment, it's
not sexy.

I will keep responding to the attempts, voluntarily, involuntarily, accidentally by people to re-write Fido-history. That started when Mouf thanked
Satti for his vision of allowing IP in the Z1-nodelist while Bob had bluntly stated Fidonet should have stayed straight-PSTN ... so much for the vision.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99
* Origin: Home of the ORG (2:292/854)

I do, because we (ZC2 3 and 4) had to deal with a ZONE1 segment of which there w as no predicting what was going to be in it for over a year
prior to Nick's arri val.

I'm not the one questioning history here, nor was I looking to use a nodelist from the past when things may or may not have been incorrect. For what I am looking to do, it's inconsequential.

Show me the othernets Frank ... I don't believe the first syllable of it.

fsxNet (https://bbs.nz/#fsxNet) when pronounced correctly, it's actually 3 syllables.

It's run by an RC out of Z3 and has a very active base with great
conversation and a very active interbbs gaming league.

Nick himself has told people that if they want to participate in an active network to join fsxNet, not fight-o-net.

You should give them a try, it's refreshing to chat and enjoy this hobby with others without all the bickering and in-fighting. There are even nodes who
are members who want absolutely nothing to do with Fidonet. I wonder why that could be.

|15frank |08// |15netsurge
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There are even nodes who
are members who want absolutely nothing to do with Fidonet. I wonder why that could be.

Fake news based upon a few sysop echoes from yesteryears?

There are hundreds of echoes in Fidonet where there's no bickering.



..

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Fake news based upon a few sysop echoes from yesteryears?

No worries, we really don't want this type of back and forth bullshit in the network anyway. Keep thinking that way.

|15frank |08// |15netsurge
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No worries, we really don't want this type of back and forth bullshit in the network anyway.

No debates at all? That sounds really boring...




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Nope. I personally deal with listed Fido Sysops who come to regret being listed. You know, for example a newcomer or long-time returning Sysop joins again and sees nonstop stupid constant shit in Fidonews from a certain troll character who is not even nodelisted. Thats example #1 and why you do not see this negative effect is astounding. But its his free speech, right?

I agree, and I am one of those who regrets it. I only do it because a) you a are friend and b) fidonet needs people who won't dive into the trenches. Who all of a sudden feel some sort of keyboard courage to lash out and one
another, especially when this hobby is dieing a slow and somewhat painful death.

|15frank |08// |15netsurge
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On 14 Aug 19 16:01:27, Bj*Rn Felten said the following to Frank Linhares:

There are even nodes who
are members who want absolutely nothing to do with Fidonet. I wonder w that could be.

Fake news based upon a few sysop echoes from yesteryears?

Nope. I personally deal with listed Fido Sysops who come to regret being listed. You know, for example a newcomer or long-time returning Sysop joins again and sees nonstop stupid constant shit in Fidonews from a certain troll character who is not even nodelisted. Thats example #1 and why you do not
see this negative effect is astounding. But its his free speech, right?

The rest of the examples of why Fido is in trouble are generally
about how conversations are either test-messages or topics of a negative tone, ie. rehashing zone-warz, my country is better than yours, etc. To keep this somewhat on-topic - The state of fidonet.org is what it is, largely due to politics.

Dead echoes... don't even get me started. Dead echoes and a whole distribution method in place to ensure a moderator's "rules" are posted on-time and count as sufficient traffic to keep 'em around.

None of this shit happens in an Othernet. No trolls, no Sysops allowing trolls under the guise of "free speech" (Othernet Sysops respect eachother), no endless tests, no dead echoes, no zone-warz, no your-country-sucks, surprisingly little to no dupes, no Nodelist Police... No politics being played, NO bullshit.

Micronet, Fsxnet, Scinet, Agora,... "Other nets" for the most part are a breath of fresh air.

I am much happier as a tiny little node in an Othernet, than a ZC in Fidonet where its just non-stop keyboard warriors and bullshit.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Frank Linhares wrote to Ward Dossche <=-

Nick himself has told people that if they want to participate in an
active network to join fsxNet, not fight-o-net.

You should give them a try, it's refreshing to chat and enjoy this
hobby with others without all the bickering and in-fighting. There are even nodes who are members who want absolutely nothing to do with
Fidonet. I wonder why that could be.

Yeah, I just popped into Fidonet tonight after spending a couple of weeks
just reading othernets (just reading my region echoes and the Z1C echo) and after 10 messages of bickering and ancient history, I need a drink.

And, the fidonet.org site *still* looks exactly the same as it looks in the wayback machine snapshot from December, 1997.

... Into the impossible
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Björn Felten wrote to Frank Linhares <=-

There are hundreds of echoes in Fidonet where there's no bickering.

There are hundreds of echoes in Fidonet where there's no traffic.


... Into the impossible
--- MultiMail/XT v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)