Hello All,

So it seems most software out there (and people that are used to said software, and backwards compatibility and all) uses %RESCAN as a catch-all for anything they're linked to.

HPT seems to only accept "%RESCAN *" for this method, as of course there are other options available and it seems the %RESCAN command is looking for something afterwards.

I'm requesting %RESCAN (without any perameters) does the same thing "%RESCAN *" does. If there is no added situation to that command.

Just as well, please document the areafix.hlp to reflect any of this, as even "%RESCAN *" is not documented in the helpfile.

Thank you, and keep up the excellent work!

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20181215
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Nicholas wrote (2020-12-18):

I'm requesting %RESCAN (without any perameters) does the same thing "%RESCAN *" does. If there is no added situation to that command.

I think it's a better to require an explicit "*".

---
* Origin: (2:280/464.47)

Hello Nicholas,

Friday December 18 2020, Nicholas Boel wrote to All:

So it seems most software out there (and people that are used to said software, and backwards compatibility and all) uses %RESCAN as a
catch-all for anything they're linked to.

HPT seems to only accept "%RESCAN *" for this method, as of course
there are other options available and it seems the %RESCAN command is looking for something afterwards.

I'm requesting %RESCAN (without any perameters) does the same thing "%RESCAN *" does. If there is no added situation to that command.

Just as well, please document the areafix.hlp to reflect any of this,
as even "%RESCAN *" is not documented in the helpfile.

Let us look into hpt/misc/areafix.hlp.

========================================
Here's some help about how you can use AreaFix to change your echomail areas.

Example:

Msg : 5 of 8 Pvt
From : Your Name 2:5020/960.1 13 Feb 99 19:51:12
To : AreaFix 2:5020/960 15 Feb 99 21:57:42
Subj : PASSWORD <- Your password ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RA_UTIL <- Add (link) area
+DFUE.GER <- same
-SYSOPS.024 <- Remove (unlink) area
U.ENG.* <- Add all areas beginning with U.ENG.
-F.???.COMP.* <- Remove all areas that match this pattern
* <- Add all areas available for you
-* <- Remove all linked areas
~RU.SEX <- Delete this area
%INFO <- Ask for general information
%LIST <- List all available areas
%LIST DN.* <- List available areas that match pattern
%LIST ! DN.* <- List all available areas except
areas that match pattern
%QUERY <- List of areas which you are currently
linked to
%LINKED <- same as %QUERY
%UNLINKED <- List available areas which you are not
currently linked to
%AVAIL <- List all areas that are available at
this system's uplinks
%AVAIL DN.* <- List areas that are available at
this system's uplinks and match pattern
%AVAIL ! DN.* <- List all areas that are available at this
system's uplinks except areas that match
pattern
%PAUSE <- If you go to holiday you can stop receiving
echomail for that time without manually
removing each area with '-AREANAME'.
%RESUME <- Switch echomail receiving ON again.
%HELP <- AreaFix will send you this help.

%RESCAN 541.LOCAL <- Rescan area
%RESCAN OS2.* <- same
%RESCAN linux.develop.ger 200 <- Rescan the last 200 mails
%RESCAN linux.develop.ger 30 days <- Rescan mails for last 30 days
%RESCAN <- Turn on rescanning of following
subscription
NSK.SYSOP /r <- Subscribe & rescan area
NSK.PARTY /r=100 <- Subscribe & rescan the last 100 mails NSK.PARTY /r=30 days <- Subscribe & rescan mails for last 30 days

%COMPRESS <- Ask for list of packers
%COMPRESS zip <- Switch current packer to 'zip'
%COMPRESS none <- Turn off packing your mail
%PACKER <packer> <- same as %compress
%RSB on <- Turn on reduced SEEN-BY mode (FSC-0093)
%RSB off <- Turn off reduced SEEN-BY mode (FSC-0093) %RULES on <- Start sending rules of any subscribed echo %RULES off <- Stop sending rules of any subscribed echo %PKTSIZE NNN <- Set max. packet (*.pkt) size to NNN kb %PKTSIZE 0 <- Set max. packet (*.pkt) size to unlimited %ARCMAILSIZE NNN <- Set max. bundle size to NNN kb
%ARCMAILSIZE 0 <- Set max. bundle size to unlimited
%AREAFIXPWD [password] <- Set new password for areafix requests,
an empty password is allowed
%PKTPWD [password] <- Set new password for *.pkt, maximum 8 chars,
an empty password is allowed

Note: you may also specify 1/0 as the aliases for on/off.
Ex.: "%RSB 1" acts the same as "%RSB on". ====================================================

Michael

... node (at) f1042 (dot) ru
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Moscow, Russia (2:5020/1042)

Hello Oli,

On Sat Dec 19 2020 09:12:44, Oli wrote to Nicholas Boel:

Nicholas wrote (2020-12-18):

I'm requesting %RESCAN (without any perameters) does the same
thing "%RESCAN *" does. If there is no added situation to that
command.

I think it's a better to require an explicit "*".

Your opinion is noted. And that is completely fine, however areafix.hlp doesn't show that as an option. So most people that are not used to HPT and it's Areafix would assume %RESCAN, since that is what most other applications use.

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20181215
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hello Michael,

On Sat Dec 19 2020 12:53:48, Michael Dukelsky wrote to Nicholas Boel:

Let us look into hpt/misc/areafix.hlp.

%RESCAN 541.LOCAL <- Rescan area
%RESCAN OS2.* <- same
%RESCAN linux.develop.ger 200 <- Rescan the last 200 mails
%RESCAN linux.develop.ger 30 days <- Rescan mails for last 30 days
%RESCAN <- Turn on rescanning of following
subscription
NSK.SYSOP /r <- Subscribe & rescan area
NSK.PARTY /r=100 <- Subscribe & rescan the last 100
mails NSK.PARTY /r=30 days <- Subscribe & rescan mails for
last 30 days

1) "%RESCAN OS2.* <- same" is not very descriptive.
2) Note there is no option to rescan all areas linked. "%RESCAN *" is not even listed as a working command.

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20181215
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hello Nicholas,

Sunday December 20 2020, Nicholas Boel wrote to Michael Dukelsky:

Let us look into hpt/misc/areafix.hlp.

%RESCAN 541.LOCAL <- Rescan area
%RESCAN OS2.* <- same
%RESCAN linux.develop.ger 200 <- Rescan the last 200 mails
%RESCAN linux.develop.ger 30 days <- Rescan mails for last 30
days %RESCAN <- Turn on rescanning of
following subscription NSK.SYSOP /r <- Subscribe &
rescan area NSK.PARTY /r=100 <- Subscribe & rescan the
last 100 mails NSK.PARTY /r=30 days <- Subscribe & rescan
mails for last 30 days

1) "%RESCAN OS2.* <- same" is not very descriptive.
2) Note there is no option to rescan all areas linked. "%RESCAN *" is
not even listed as a working command.

OK, Nick. I'll try to reword areafix.hlp but I have to look into the code first to see if everything that is written in the help corresponds to the code. So it may take some time.

Michael

... node (at) f1042 (dot) ru
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: Moscow, Russia (2:5020/1042)

Hello Nicholas!

20 Dec 20, Nicholas Boel wrote to Oli:

and it's Areafix would assume %RESCAN, since that is what most other applications use.

From my point of view %rescan is most useful when adding new echoareas.

The actual function definition for "%rescan" = "rescan all following listed echoareas" does fit well when linking new echos.

An unwanted "rescan all" would deliver 3+ GB here if all echos are linked.

So it's a kind of user protection to ask the user to say "send me a mailbomb" by confirming the "%rescan all" with the standard wildcard "*".

Regards

Kai

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)

Hello Michael,

On Sun Dec 20 2020 22:40:38, Michael Dukelsky wrote to Nicholas Boel:

1) "%RESCAN OS2.* <- same" is not very descriptive.
2) Note there is no option to rescan all areas linked. "%RESCAN
*" is not even listed as a working command.

OK, Nick. I'll try to reword areafix.hlp but I have to look into the
code first to see if everything that is written in the help
corresponds to the code. So it may take some time.

Thank you. I brought it up because I recently had a user attempt "%RESCAN" and nothing happened. He didn't even get a response from Areafix saying it was an invalid command (So my guess is that at the moment it is always looking for some kind of parameter after RESCAN). Reading the help at least showed wildcards were in fact supported so I had him try "%RESCAN *" which worked.

So while you're digging, you may want to take a look at %RESCAN by itself to see if there is some sort of response given and/or error handling if no parameters are given. My logs didn't show anything except that the Areafix was processed, yet nothing was done and no reply was sent to the requestor.

If it is indeed an invalid command maybe there should be an Areafix response to the user saying so, and just as well if it is seeking more parameters maybe some kind of response in that regard - or possibly something logged server side stating more than just the "Areafix has been processed" (which makes one assume the process was successful, even though nothing happens)?

Just my two cents, and thank you for your continued work on this excellent software!

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20181215
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hello Kai,

On Mon Dec 21 2020 00:27:56, Kai Richter wrote to Nicholas Boel:

The actual function definition for "%rescan" = "rescan all following listed echoareas" does fit well when linking new echos.

An unwanted "rescan all" would deliver 3+ GB here if all echos are
linked.

I suppose that is up to the person hosting the message bases to be rescanned. I don't keep nearly as many messages as you, apparantly. But then again, I wouldn't recommend it if someone wanted 10+ years of Fidonet rescanned, either. ;)

So it's a kind of user protection to ask the user to say "send me a mailbomb" by confirming the "%rescan all" with the standard wildcard
"*".

While I do see your point, it seems there is no error handling or reply when someone requests %RESCAN by itself.

If it was meant to do something, it is not currently doing it.

If it was never meant to be an option, then something seems to be missing here. It seems as if it is expecting a parameter after, no matter what. But when no parameter is sent, logs state "Areafix has been processed" - no errors, no reply netmail to the requestor, and absolutely nothing happens.

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20181215
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hello Nicholas!

20 Dec 20, Nicholas Boel wrote to Michael Dukelsky:

If it is indeed an invalid command maybe there should be an Areafix response to the user saying so

Very good point.

Regards

Kai

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)

Hello Nicholas,

Sunday December 20 2020, Nicholas Boel wrote to Michael Dukelsky:

OK, Nick. I'll try to reword areafix.hlp but I have to look into
the code first to see if everything that is written in the help
corresponds to the code. So it may take some time.

Thank you. I brought it up because I recently had a user attempt
"%RESCAN" and nothing happened. He didn't even get a response from
Areafix saying it was an invalid command (So my guess is that at the moment it is always looking for some kind of parameter after RESCAN).

Thank you for the bug report. I've fixed areafix and updated the areafix help. Michael

... node (at) f1042 (dot) ru
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Moscow, Russia (2:5020/1042)

Hello Nicholas,

Sunday December 20 2020, Nicholas Boel wrote to Michael Dukelsky:

OK, Nick. I'll try to reword areafix.hlp but I have to look into
the code first to see if everything that is written in the help
corresponds to the code. So it may take some time.

Thank you. I brought it up because I recently had a user attempt
"%RESCAN" and nothing happened. He didn't even get a response from
Areafix saying it was an invalid command (So my guess is that at the moment it is always looking for some kind of parameter after RESCAN).

Thank you for the bug report. I've fixed areafix and updated the areafix help. The message slipped away, so I continue.

If "%rescan" is sent to areafix, it will look for the subscribing commands below "%rescan". If there are such commands, the subscribed echos are rescanned. If there are no such commands, areafix now sends a reply saying "No area specified to rescan". The same phrase is logged.

And here is the updated help. Please tell me if there is anything to change in it.

================ Cut areafix.hlp ================
Here's some help about how you can use AreaFix to change your echomail areas. All AreaFix commands are case insensitive, you may use %help as well as %HELP.

Example:

Msg : 5 of 8 Pvt
From : Your Name 2:5020/960.1 13 Feb 99 19:51:12
To : AreaFix 2:5020/960 15 Feb 99 21:57:42
Subj : PASSWORD <- Your password ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ %HELP <- AreaFix will send you this help.
%INFO <- Ask for general information
%LIST <- List accessible areas
%LIST <areamask> <- List accessible areas matching the pattern %LIST ! <areamask> <- List accessible areas not matching the pattern %QUERY <- List the areas you are currently subscribed to %LINKED <- The same as %QUERY
%UNLINKED <- List the areas you are not subscribed to
%AVAIL <- List all areas that are available at
this system and its uplinks
%AVAIL <areamask> <- List the areas available at this system and
its uplinks and matching the pattern
%AVAIL ! <areamask> <- List the areas available at this system and
its uplinks and not matching the pattern
<area> <- Subscribe to the area
+<area> <- Subscribe to the area
-<area> <- Unsubscribe from the area
<areamask> <- Subscribe to all areas matching the pattern -<areamask> <- Unsubscribe from the areas matching the pattern * <- Subscribe to all areas available for you
-* <- Unsubscribe from all linked areas
~<area> <- Delete the area
<area> /r <- Subscribe and rescan the area
<area> /r=N <- Subscribe and rescan the last N messages
<area> /r=N days <- Subscribe & rescan mails for the last N days %RESCAN <area> <- Rescan (send all messages from) the area %RESCAN <areamask> <- Rescan the areas matching the pattern
%RESCAN <area> N <- Rescan the last N messages from the area %RESCAN <area> N days <- Rescan messages for the last N days
%RESCAN <- Rescan the areas subscribed below in the same
message to areafix
%PAUSE <- Suspend receiving echomail preserving the
subscription
%RESUME <- Resume receiving echomail after the PAUSE %COMPRESS <- Ask for the list of compression algorithms %COMPRESS zip <- Set current compression to 'zip'
%COMPRESS none <- Turn off bundling of your echomail
%PACKER <packer> <- The same as %compress
%RSB on <- Turn on reduced SEEN-BY mode (FSC-0093)
%RSB off <- Turn off reduced SEEN-BY mode (FSC-0093)
%RULES on <- Start sending rules of any subscribed echo %RULES off <- Stop sending rules of any subscribed echo %PKTSIZE N <- Set max. packet (*.pkt) size to N kb
%PKTSIZE 0 <- Set unlimited packet (*.pkt) size
%ARCMAILSIZE N <- Set max. bundle size to N kb
%ARCMAILSIZE 0 <- Set unlimited bundle size
%AREAFIXPWD [password] <- Set a new password for areafix requests,
an empty password is allowed
%PKTPWD [password] <- Set a new password for .pkt, maximum 8 chars,
an empty password is allowed
Notes:
Any other lines will be ignored
<area> - an areaname, for example FIDOSOFT.HUSKY
<areamask> - areamask may contain '*' and '?' wild card characters,
'*' may substitute any string and '?' substitutes one character;
for example, ru.*
N - some number
[password] - optional password without brackets. If no password is
specified, an empty password will be used
You may also specify 1/0 as the aliases for on/off.
Example: "%RSB 1" acts the same as "%RSB on".
================ End areafix.hlp ================

Michael

... node (at) f1042 (dot) ru
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Moscow, Russia (2:5020/1042)

Hello Michael,

On Thu Jan 28 2021 18:37:04, Michael Dukelsky wrote to Nicholas Boel:

And here is the updated help. Please tell me if there is anything to change in it.

%RESCAN <- Rescan the areas subscribed below in
the same message to areafix

Is this command needed? If empty, it now replies and logs with an error. So that seems to take care of a blank response. Does '%RESCAN <area>' already cover the correct way to go about this?

If '%RESCAN <area>' can also be used this way:

%RESCAN
<area>
<area2>
<area3>

or

%RESCAN <area> <area2> <area3> ...

Maybe just making the first option:

%RESCAN <area> ...

.. and elminiating the blank command altogether would eliminate any future confusion?

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20181215
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hello Michael,

On Thu Jan 28 2021 18:25:18, Michael Dukelsky wrote to Nicholas Boel:

Thank you. I brought it up because I recently had a user attempt
"%RESCAN" and nothing happened. He didn't even get a response
from Areafix saying it was an invalid command (So my guess is
that at the moment it is always looking for some kind of
parameter after RESCAN).

Thank you for the bug report. I've fixed areafix and updated the
areafix help. Michael

Thank you for taking the time to look into it, Michael! I'll make sure to update shortly!

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20181215
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hello Nicholas,

Saturday January 30 2021, Nicholas Boel wrote to Michael Dukelsky:

If '%RESCAN <area>' can also be used this way:

%RESCAN
<area>
<area2>
<area3>

or

%RESCAN <area> <area2> <area3> ...

Yes, one may see it this way.

Maybe just making the first option:

%RESCAN <area> ...

.. and elminiating the blank command altogether would eliminate any
future confusion?

If we eliminate the blank command, then the first form

%RESCAN
<area1>
<area2>
<area3>

will not work, because here the first line contains this very blank command.

Michael

... node (at) f1042 (dot) ru
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Moscow, Russia (2:5020/1042)

Hello Nicholas!

30 Jan 21, Nicholas Boel wrote to Michael Dukelsky:

%RESCAN <- Rescan the areas subscribed below in
the same message to areafix

Is this command needed?

Yes. It enables the list mode. All following areas are rescanned without the need to type %rescan in front or /r at the end of the lines. This is pretty comfortable. Especially because a simple <area> means:

<area> <- Subscribe to the area

a new subscribtion.

If empty, it now replies and logs with an error.
So that seems to take care of a blank response.

Correct. Rescan always needs a target.

Does '%RESCAN <area>' already cover the correct way to go about this?

Yes. That is the reason why %RESCAN <area> is the first line of the rescan commands in the %help message. The normal workflow should be to search a text from top until the first hit found the keyword.

If '%RESCAN <area>' can also be used this way:

%RESCAN
<area>
<area2>
<area3>

Yes it can. That is what the empty %rescan line set up.

or

%RESCAN <area> <area2> <area3> ...

I did not found that in the helpfile so i think that does not work.
The <area2> is reserved for the N parameter to rescan N old messages.

Maybe just making the first option:

%RESCAN <area> ...

It is the first option in the helpfile and should be the first option that would be found.

.. and elminiating the blank command altogether would eliminate any
future confusion?

The confusion was because the empty %rescan line without following echos did not produced an error answer. Teach the users to who to do this RTFM thing and you would avoid more confusion in the future.

Regards

Kai

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)

Hello Michael!

28 Jan 21, Michael Dukelsky wrote to Nicholas Boel:

And here is the updated help. Please tell me if there is anything to change in it.

The line breaks for longer descriptions are looking like a line seperator "blank" line on the left side of the screen. The "empty" line below "%RESCAN" highlights the %rescan line like a title.

How about empty lines to seperate the keywords into blocks or sections?

A first section for "Basic Commands" and then more complex "advanced" commands?

Regards

Kai

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)

Hello Kai,

Sunday January 31 2021, Kai Richter wrote to Michael Dukelsky:

And here is the updated help. Please tell me if there is anything
to change in it.

The line breaks for longer descriptions are looking like a line
seperator "blank" line on the left side of the screen. The "empty"
line below "%RESCAN" highlights the %rescan line like a title.

I see no such effects. Is your window width less than 80?

How about empty lines to seperate the keywords into blocks or
sections?

A first section for "Basic Commands" and then more complex "advanced" commands?

"Advanced areafix" has a special meaning, so using the word "advanced" here may lead to some confusion. Besides that, the help is already long and I wouldn't like to make it longer.

Michael

... node (at) f1042 (dot) ru
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Moscow, Russia (2:5020/1042)

Hello Michael!

01 Feb 21, Michael Dukelsky wrote to Kai Richter:

The line breaks for longer descriptions are looking like a line
seperator "blank" line on the left side of the screen.

I see no such effects. Is your window width less than 80?

No. The "blank" is space to format the helpfile:

<area> /r=N days <- Subscribe & rescan mails for the last N days %RESCAN <area> <- Rescan (send all messages from) the area %RESCAN <areamask> <- Rescan the areas matching the pattern
%RESCAN <area> N <- Rescan the last N messages from the area %RESCAN <area> N days <- Rescan messages for the last N days
%RESCAN <- Rescan the areas subscribed below in the same
message to areafix
%PAUSE <- Suspend receiving echomail preserving the

this empty space above subscription

%RESUME <- Resume receiving echomail after the PAUSE %COMPRESS <- Ask for the list of compression algorithms

Our brain is trained to identify differences first. The reflex fokus will be the empty looking line in the wall of text and would bound to the rescan line first. The look with sections or small block seperation would be

<area> /r=N days <- Subscribe & rescan mails for the last N days

%RESCAN <area> <- Rescan (send all messages from) the area %RESCAN <areamask> <- Rescan the areas matching the pattern
%RESCAN <area> N <- Rescan the last N messages from the area %RESCAN <area> N days <- Rescan messages for the last N days
%RESCAN <- Rescan the areas subscribed below in the same
message to areafix
%PAUSE <- Suspend receiving echomail preserving the
subscription
%RESUME <- Resume receiving echomail after the PAUSE %COMPRESS <- Ask for the list of compression algorithms

How about empty lines to seperate the keywords into blocks or
sections?

Example above.

A first section for "Basic Commands" and then more complex
"advanced" commands?

"Advanced areafix" has a special meaning, so using the word "advanced" here may lead to some confusion.

Understood. Then basic and more. Or detailed... ;-)

Besides that, the help is already long and I wouldn't like to make it longer.

I would not count empty lines for "longer". For my overall areafix usage of the last years my basic commands are help, list, avail, rescan area, +area and -area.

If those fill the first lines of the helpfile then the basics are on the first page and i think scrolling down the long file would not be neccessary for most users.

Regards

Kai

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
* Origin: Monobox (2:240/77)

Hello Kai,

On Sun Jan 31 2021 02:56:34, Kai Richter wrote to Nicholas Boel:

.. and elminiating the blank command altogether would eliminate
any future confusion?

The confusion was because the empty %rescan line without following
echos did not produced an error answer. Teach the users to who to do
this RTFM thing and you would avoid more confusion in the future.

*Users* should not have to RTFM for a server side program. They are given the help file. That is the only RTFM they need. If the help file (RTFM) confuses them, they ask the sysop. Right?

I'm only trying to avoid that confusion. Keeping a blank %RESCAN command in the help file will make users think they can use it by itself. So I was asking if the blank command was necessary. Maybe it should include:

%RESCAN
<area>
<area2>
<...>

So that it is more specific to the %RESCAN function actually needing input afterwards. Just because you don't see it as confusing, doesn't mean others that don't actually setup, RTFM, and use the program on a daily basis won't be. You must remember also, these *users* may have access to multiple hosts and areafixes that do not act the same, or even use the same commands. So the helpfile should be as specific as possible to make sure the users understand and use the proper commands.

Regards,
Nick

... "Take my advice, I don't use it anyway."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20181215
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hello Nicholas,

Saturday February 06 2021, Nicholas Boel wrote to Kai Richter:

[...skipped...]

I'm only trying to avoid that confusion. Keeping a blank %RESCAN
command in the help file will make users think they can use it by
itself. So I was asking if the blank command was necessary. Maybe it should include:

%RESCAN
<area>
<area2>
<...>

So that it is more specific to the %RESCAN function actually needing
input afterwards. Just because you don't see it as confusing, doesn't
mean others that don't actually setup, RTFM, and use the program on a daily basis won't be. You must remember also, these *users* may have access to multiple hosts and areafixes that do not act the same, or
even use the same commands. So the helpfile should be as specific as possible to make sure the users understand and use the proper
commands.

I agree with you when you say that the helpfile should be as specific as possible. But the short help areafix sends now in response to %help command should be *short*. It is mainly intended to be used by a person who already knows how to talk to areafix but wants to look up a command she/he has not used for a long time. It would be inappropriate to give details here. I think it would be better to add a command for sending a detailed help with examples. Something like a man page. Maybe the command could be named %man.

Michael

... node (at) f1042 (dot) ru
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Moscow, Russia (2:5020/1042)

Hello Nicholas!

06 Feb 21, Nicholas Boel wrote to Kai Richter:

The confusion was because the empty %rescan line without
following echos did not produced an error answer. Teach the users
to who to do this RTFM thing and you would avoid more confusion
in the future.

*Users* should not have to RTFM for a server side program. They are
given the help file. That is the only RTFM they need. If the help file (RTFM) confuses them, they ask the sysop. Right?

Right. In my understanding RTFM is a term for read the available information. The help file is the users areafix manual.

I'm only trying to avoid that confusion. Keeping a blank %RESCAN
command in the help file will make users think they can use it by
itself. So I was asking if the blank command was necessary.

Hell, RTFM! There is no blank %RESCAN line in the help file. That's why the problem you see is not there.

I do know that we have 2021 and users attention span ends somewhere at 140 characters. Teach users the RTFM thing is telling them that they shouldn't stop reading if the first word matches. The information of the "blank" RESCAN help file is this:

%RESCAN <- Rescan the areas subscribed below in the same
message to areafix

I'm a non native english reader and even i did understand what this subscribed below means. The information is there, all a user needs to do is read it.

Just because you don't see it as confusing, doesn't mean others that
don't actually setup, RTFM, and use the program on a daily basis
won't be.

I have that in my mind. Sometimes i'm a part of that group.

You must remember also, these *users* may have access to
multiple hosts and areafixes that do not act the same, or even use
the same commands.

I encounter those problems any time when i talk to the areafix. I have problems to remember what list, query and avail does. Two of them do the same. When i didn't use the areafix for months then my first thing is the %help command.

So the helpfile should be as specific as possible to make sure the
users understand and use the proper commands.

I think i wrote in an other mail that the information is in the helpfile but the layout let the user focus to another position. I'm not sure what the task of the helpfile is. I do use it as a reference. The file that explains the details should be the real user manual. I think that the husky suite doesn't have such verbose manual but the squish tosser had one for example.

No i don't want that the user have to read hundreds of pages. But two line of an help file shouldn't be too much to ask for.

Regards

Kai

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