-={ 2021-03-07 18:42:15.550216597+00:00 }=-

Hey August!

As promised here is a test utf-8 msg that contains both Russian and Latvian translations of "Offhand it appears that translate works" using google's translate from vim's commandline.

:read !trans -b -no-ansi -s english -t russian "Offhand it appears that translate works"
Навскидку кажется, что перевод работ

:read !trans -b -no-ansi -s english -t latvian "Offhand it appears that translate works"
Izskatās, ka darbs tiek tulkots ārpus rokas

It looks good from this angle ... and with the Old English tagline too. I am throwing that in as a bonus. Enjoy.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Getreowan freond... deorweorðeste ðyng eallra þissa woruldgesælþa.
True friends are the most precious of all this world's joys.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hi Maurice,
...Greets from my Telegram app!

-={ 2021-03-07 18:42:15.550216597+00:00 }=-

Hey August!

As promised here is a test utf-8 msg that contains both Russian and Latvian translations of "Offhand it appears that translate works" using google's translate from vim's commandline.

:read !trans -b -no-ansi -s english -t russian "Offhand it appears that translate works"
��᪨��� �������, �� ��ॢ�� ࠡ��

:read !trans -b -no-ansi -s english -t latvian "Offhand it appears that translate works"
Izskat?s, ka darbs tiek tulkots ?rpus rokas

It looks good from this angle ... and with the Old English tagline too. I am throwing that in as a bonus. Enjoy.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Getreowan freond... deorweor?este ?yng eallra ?issa woruldges?l?a.
True friends are the most precious of all this world's joys.

Looks good on Telegram!

A better equivalent in Latvian for "offhand" might be "no rokas" or "uz vietas" in the original context. But in other context, "improviz?ts" might work.

BTW.. since this message would go through Stas' system, my Latvian chars above may not translate. I will confirm with my nntp connection later where Thunderbird seems to handle utf-8 automatically.

Ciao!
/|ug (https://t.me/aabolins)

... [##### ###] has been cracked! Kudos & Thank$ to JH. :-)
--- tg BBS v0.6.4
* Origin: Fido by Telegram BBS from Stas Mishchenkov (2:460/256)

Hi, Maurice!

-={ 2021-03-07 18:42:15.550216597+00:00 }=-

Hey August!

As promised here is a test utf-8 msg that contains both Russian and Latvian translations of "Offhand it appears that translate works" using google's translate from vim's commandline.

:read !trans -b -no-ansi -s english -t russian "Offhand it appears that translate works"
��᪨��� �������, �� ��ॢ�� ࠡ��

:read !trans -b -no-ansi -s english -t latvian "Offhand it appears that translate works"
Izskat?s, ka darbs tiek tulkots ?rpus rokas

It looks good from this angle ... and with the Old English tagline too. I am throwing that in as a bonus. Enjoy.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Getreowan freond... deorweor?este ?yng eallra ?issa woruldges?l?a.
True friends are the most precious of all this world's joys.

Thanks to the correctly specified ^aCHRS kludge, my tg_BBS was correctly broadcasting your message. However, it looks ugly in Fido.

Have a nice carrot!
Brother Rabbit.

... Wisdom is when you understand everything, but you are no longer upset.
--- tg BBS v0.6.4
* Origin: Fido by Telegram BBS from Stas Mishchenkov (2:460/256)

-={ 2021-03-07 20:49:13.981079736+00:00 }=-

Hey August!

Looks good on Telegram!

That is only a start since I can see by your quote that the utf-8 characters got grunged. That is the same with golded and msged as they both display properly but cannot reproduce utf-8 characters. Even an old DOS editor can reproduce utf-8 characters it just cannot display them properly seeing they know nothing about multibyte characters.

BTW.. since this message would go through Stas' system, my
Latvian chars above may not translate.

Note that I am not quoting them back as they are defective and I opt out putting 8-bit characters into a utf-8 msg. That is why my packer calls up iconv to convert utf-8 charaters to whatever 8-bit character set so that only the packed msg has the targeted encoding and the original msg is unscathed as I can verify by looking down at the utf-8 Old English tagline. However in this case iconv isn't part of the equation as far as these particular exchages are concerned.

I will confirm with my nntp connection later where Thunderbird
seems to handle utf-8 automatically.

I don't use thunderbird myself but I'd be willing to bet it has absolutely no problem with utf-8 characters, including the Latvian ones.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Ðe wes molde imynt, er ðu of moder come.
For you the dust was intended, before you came from your mother.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

-={ 2021-03-07 21:22:12.517369766+00:00 }=-

Hey Brother Rabbit!

Thanks to the correctly specified ^aCHRS kludge, my tg_BBS was
correctly broadcasting your message. However, it looks ugly in
Fido.

That is because your Fido is obviously defective. My Fido created the message and has absolutely no problems displaying, quoting and/or creating proper utf-8 characters with or without the defective CHRS kludge.

Life is good,
Maurice

_
(.\
|/(\
\(\\
---m-m\---
\
... The Norwegian Blue - Pining for the fjørds.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hey Brother Rabbit!

Thanks to the correctly specified ^aCHRS kludge, my tg_BBS was correctly broadcasting your message. However, it looks ugly in
Fido.

That is because your Fido is obviously defective. My Fido created the message and has absolutely no problems displaying, quoting and/or creating proper utf-8 characters with or without the defective CHRS kludge.

I wouldn't say "obviously defective". I'd say "affectively kludge-challenged".

:D

--
--- SBBSecho 3.13-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)

-={ 2021-03-07 22:10:54.139045554+00:00 }=-

Hey August!

I'd say "affectively kludge-challenged".

Sure, I'll go along with that ... for now.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Sceal þeodna gehwylc þeawum lifgan.
Every ruler ought to live virtuously.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

On 3/7/2021 6:42 PM, between "Maurice Kinal - August Abolins":

:read !trans -b -no-ansi -s english -t latvian "Offhand it appears
that translate works"

Izskatās, ka darbs tiek tulkots ārpus rokas

Very nice. Latvian chars look fine, as expected ofcourse! :D

---
* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

On 3/7/2021 8:49 PM, between "Maurice Kinal - August Abolins":

I don't use thunderbird myself but I'd be willing to bet it has
absolutely no problem with utf-8 characters, including the Latvian
ones.

.. Ðe wes molde imynt, er ðu of moder come.
For you the dust was intended, before you came from your mother.

Thunderbird is pretty cool that way. It seems to have absolutely no trouble with utf-8. But I don't understand why it is such a big job for Fido progs that are still currently supported and developed.

--
Daudz baltu dieniņu, Laimiņa dodi, Diženi raženi, Dzīvojoti!

---
* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

-={ 2021-03-07 23:48:12.457635235+00:00 }=-

Hey August!

Izskatās, ka darbs tiek tulkots ārpus rokas

Very nice. Latvian chars look fine, as expected ofcourse! :D

Was there ever any doubt? ;-)

Life is good,
Maurice

... Eorþan indryhto ealdað ond searað, swa nu monna gehwylc.
The glory of earth ages and grows sere, as now every man does.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

On 3/7/2021 8:49 PM, between "Maurice Kinal - August Abolins":

Looks good on Telegram!

That is only a start since I can see by your quote that the utf-8
characters got grunged. That is the same with golded and msged as
they both display properly but cannot reproduce utf-8 characters.

Yes.. The Latvian chars did not translate on their way back from Telegram to this Thunderbird reader. The Russian chars were fine though.

--
Apsolītās ogas neaizpildīs grozu.

---
* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

-={ 2021-03-08 04:03:32.724791328+00:00 }=-

Hey August!

It seems to have absolutely no trouble with utf-8.

No surprise here. I've had this working with fidonet for at least 8 years now. Now with the vim commandline and trans as you've have helped to confirm.

:read !trans -b -no-ansi -s latvian -t english "Daudz baltu dieniņu, Laimiņa dodi, Diženi raženi, Dzīvojoti\!"
Lots of white days, Happy Happiness, Great Fruit, Lived!

I had to escape the exclaimation mark at the end. How accurate was this result?

Life is good,
Maurice

... Sceal æghwylc mon alætan lændagas.
Every man will have to relinquish the days loaned to him.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

-={ 2021-03-08 04:12:28.604099539+00:00 }=-

Hey August!

Yes.. The Latvian chars did not translate on their way back from
Telegram to this Thunderbird reader. The Russian chars were
fine though.

All was lost here.

:read !trans -b -no-ansi -s latvian -t english "Apsolītās ogas neaizpildīs grozu."
The promised berries will not fill the basket.

How are we holding up so far?

Life is good,
Maurice

... Swa mon ma spricð, swa him læs monna gelyfð.
The more a man speaks, the less people believe him.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

On 3/8/2021 4:03 AM, between "Maurice Kinal - August Abolins":

:read !trans -b -no-ansi -s latvian -t english "Daudz baltu dieniņu, Laimiņa dodi, Diženi raženi, Dzīvojoti\!"
Lots of white days, Happy Happiness, Great Fruit, Lived!

I had to escape the exclaimation mark at the end. How accurate was this result?

It's too literal. The meaning of "baltu" should not be "white". The sentiment is more to wish "bright" days.

"Happy Happiness" is completely weird. The sentiment is to wish that the aforementioned "bright days" provide "lots of good luck" or "fortune".

The meaning of the whole thing should be something like:

"May many bright days of fortune be granted in your life."

Nevertheless, I like the convenience you have looking up the translation from the command-line. Maybe you can build a TRANSFIX akin to how ALLFIX works, and provide a translation report back to an echo! :D

---
* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

On 3/8/2021 4:12 AM, between "Maurice Kinal - August Abolins":

:read !trans -b -no-ansi -s latvian -t english "Apsolītās ogas neaizpildīs grozu."
The promised berries will not fill the basket.

How are we holding up so far?

Google translate did a better job there. The idea is to not count your chickens before they hatch.

---
* Origin: nntp://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/6.0)

-={ 2021-03-08 05:21:59.636355613+00:00 }=-

Hey August!

"Happy Happiness" is completely weird.

I thought the whole thing was weird ... I still do even after reading your more reasonable translation shown below;

"May many bright days of fortune be granted in your life."

That looks much more plausable than my posted translation which I am not quoting back.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Oft sceall eorl monig anes willan wræc adreogan.
Often must many a warrior suffer misery because of the will of one person. --- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

-={ 2021-03-08 05:26:07.526128637+00:00 }=-

Hey August!

The idea is to not count your chickens before they hatch.

We can't lose them all. Eventually it had to get something right or close enough to correctness.

Anyhow I am more than satisfied about all the utf-8 characters being preserved no matter where or what the input.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Ne sceal man to ær forht ne to ær fægen.
One should not be too soon fearful nor too soon joyful.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hi Maurice,
...Greets from my Telegram app!

-={ 2021-03-08 05:26:07.526128637+00:00 }=-

Hey August!

The idea is to not count your chickens before they hatch.

We can't lose them all. Eventually it had to get something right or close enough to correctness.

Anyhow I am more than satisfied about all the utf-8 characters being preserved no matter where or what the input.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Ne sceal man to ?r forht ne to ?r f?gen.
One should not be too soon fearful nor too soon joyful.

YES.. the chars preservation looks very good using Telegram and Thunderbird!

Ciao!
/|ug (https://t.me/aabolins)

... [##### ###] has been cracked! Kudos & Thank$ to JH. :-)
--- tg BBS v0.6.4
* Origin: Fido by Telegram BBS from Stas Mishchenkov (2:460/256)

Hello Maurice!

** On Monday 08.03.21 - 05:21, you wrote to me:

"May many bright days of fortune be granted in your life."

That looks much more plausable than my posted translation
which I am not quoting back.

It just goes to show you that google translate still has a long
way to go to understand the nuances of meaning instead of a just
a literal approach.


--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.49
* Origin: The ONLY point that matters --> . <-- (1:153/757.21)

-={ 2021-03-08 16:10:08.997274208+00:00 }=-

Hey August!

the chars preservation looks very good using Telegram and
Thunderbird!

Excellent. Too bad about msged and golded but perhaps someday they will see the light, although I lost the faith ages ago. How about you? In the meantime I plan to keep what I have working working. :-)

Life is good,
Maurice

... Eorþan indryhto ealdað ond searað, swa nu monna gehwylc.
The glory of earth ages and grows sere, as now every man does.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

-={ 2021-03-08 16:16:39.443403181+00:00 }=-

Hey August!

It just goes to show you that google translate still has a long
way to go

I don't have a problem with that. I wasn't planning on using it that much but for sure it generated some traffic which in itself was worth something.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel.
Fate ever goes as it must.
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

-={ 2021-03-10 00:55:43.370906039+00:00 }=-

Hey August!

-o "$Conference" == "FIDOTEST"

Try this one as it should convert utf-8 to cp866 automagically. I could do the same for latvian but I am sure it will get grunged. I am not betting the farm that this one won't get grunged but it shouldn't if CHRS kludges are to be believed.

Life is good,
Maurice

... � �㦮� ��������� � ᢮�� ��⠢�� �� 室��.
Don't go to another monastery with your own rules
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

On 3/9/2021 5:55 PM, between "Maurice Kinal : August Abolins":

Try this one as it should convert utf-8 to cp866 automagically. I could do the same for latvian but I am sure it will get grunged. I am not betting the farm that this one won't get grunged but it shouldn't if CHRS kludges are to be believed.
... � �㦮� ��������� � ᢮�� ��⠢�� �� 室��.

Looks fine with TB.

--

--- .
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

Hello Maurice!

Try this one as it should convert utf-8 to cp866
automagically. I could do the same for latvian but I am
sure it will get grunged. I am not betting the farm that
this one won't get grunged but it shouldn't if CHRS kludges
are to be believed.

... � �㦮� ��������� � ᢮�� ��⠢�� �� 室��.
Don't go to another monastery with your own rules

The russ chars look fine in Telegram too. (But not in OpenXP
because there is no font suitable for console mode that will
support russian and english chars simultaneously).

Don't worry about the Latvian. The chars wouldn't be supported
in any fixed-width TTF (that this console program would use)
that I know of anyway, either.

--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.49
* Origin: The ONLY point that matters --> . <-- (1:153/757.21)

-={ 2021-03-10 01:54:59.071016839+00:00 }=-

Hey August!

@CHRS: CP437 2

Hm. That is really weird because your quote from me shows;

... � �㦮� ��������� � ᢮�� ��⠢�� �� 室��.
Don't go to another monastery with your own rules

Which are obviously cp866. It isn't possible for the cp437 codepage to display russian characters.

support russian and english chars simultaneously).

I can throw in latvian to the above and have them all in the same msg simultaneously ... and a few more while we're at it.

Don't worry about the Latvian.

I wasn't worried but just being complete. There is no good reason latvian and others can't be supported by having the right tools at hand. I believe we have proved that. As for your CHRS kludge I think it stands as further evidence how lame the CHRS kludge actually is. I don't think it is a keeper.

Life is good,
Maurice

... �ࠪ� ᮢ������� �� ������.
Marriages occur in heaven
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

-={ 2021-03-10 02:06:16.212033291+00:00 }=-

Hey August!

@CHRS: CP866 2

That's better but it didn't really matter as shown below.

... � �㦮� ��������� � ᢮�� ��⠢�� �� 室��.

Looks fine with TB.

It also quoted back perfectly. Whoever created those characters obviously knows what he is talking about. :::evil grin:::

Life is good,
Maurice

... ����� �㧭�� ᢮��� ������.
Every person is the blacksmith of their own destiny
--- GNU bash, version 5.1.4(1)-release (x86_64-motorshed-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hello Maurice!

** On Wednesday 10.03.21 - 01:54, you wrote to me:

@CHRS: CP437 2

Hm. That is really weird because your quote from me shows;

... � �㦮� ��������� � ᢮�� ��⠢�� �� 室��.
Don't go to another monastery with your own rules

Which are obviously cp866. It isn't possible for the cp437
codepage to display russian characters.

Yes.. I know that. But it's cool to know that OpenXP doesn't
necessarily grunge then up to the point where they can't be
decoded after a reply using cp437.

support russian and english chars simultaneously).

I can throw in latvian to the above and have them all in
the same msg simultaneously ... and a few more while we're
at it.

Understood. utf-8 would be the ticket for that. But then, it
still remains for utf-8 to be supported in OpenXP which is not
likely to happen.

Don't worry about the Latvian.

I wasn't worried but just being complete. There is no good
reason latvian and others can't be supported by having the
right tools at hand. I believe we have proved that.

For Latvian, I just have to stick with TB or Telegram. It ain't
gonna work in OpenXP unless I can get utf-8 support *and* a
Windows console font that works with that.

As for your CHRS kludge I think it stands as further
evidence how lame the CHRS kludge actually is. I don't
think it is a keeper.

Yes.. in your CP866 message to me and my CP437 quoted reply to
you, that may be the case. But atleast OpenXP did not butcher
the "original" to the point that you couldn't read the quoted
Russian chars back to you. THAT is not so lame. ;)
--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.49
* Origin: The ONLY point that matters --> . <-- (1:153/757.21)

Hi, Maurice!

10 ��� 21 00:55, Maurice Kinal -> August Abolins:

... � �㦮� ��������� � ᢮�� ��⠢�� �� 室��.
Don't go to another monastery with your own rules

Do you know so much Russian?

Have nice nights.
Stas Mishchenkov.

--- A husband without a wife is like an oak tree without a woodpecker.
* Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)