Hi again,

¡ <- inverted exclamation mark
¿ <- inverted question mark

I myself do not see this properly displayed after posting this. I get à (a with grave) and ÿ (y with dieresis).

However if I open the exported .PKT with an editor that supports utf-8, I see them ok.

So it seems that the utf8_850.chs I am using (Michiel's) is missing some characters?

Carlos
--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada point at Zruspa's (2:341/66.3463)

On 30/04/21 13:32, Carlos Navarro -> All wrote:

Hi again,

¡ <- inverted exclamation mark
¿ <- inverted question mark

I myself do not see this properly displayed after posting this. I get à

(a

with grave) and ÿ (y with dieresis).

However if I open the exported .PKT with an editor that supports utf-8,
I see
them ok.

So it seems that the utf8_850.chs I am using (Michiel's) is missing some characters?

I am reading your message at a Mozilla Thunderbird via NNTP over JamNNTPD. Both
your characters are appearing normally to me ;)


--
_
..-----________________--_ ________.--'-`--._____ Flavio Bessa \____==================_) \_'===================` 4:801/188
_,--___.-|__|-.______|=====/ `---' fcbessa@gmail.com
`---------._ ~~~~~| Rio de Janeiro
`-._ - - - ,' Brasil
\_____,-' Visit Zone4 Website at: https://fido.bbs.docksud.com.ar/wiki/doku.php?id=fidonet:nodos
--- Thunderbird/MacOS 78.6.0
* Origin: Andromeda - Saturn's Orbit NNTP Gateway, Brazil (4:801/188)

On 30 Apr 2021, Carlos Navarro said the following...

Hi again,

¡ <- inverted exclamation mark
¿ <- inverted question mark

I myself do not see this properly displayed after posting this. I get à (a with grave) and ÿ (y with dieresis).

However if I open the exported .PKT with an editor that supports utf-8,
I see them ok.

So it seems that the utf8_850.chs I am using (Michiel's) is missing some characters?

Great Job!!!

IB Joe
AKA Joe Schweier
SysOp of Joe's BBS
-=JoesBBS.com=-

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A47 2021/01/16 (Raspberry Pi/32)
* Origin: JoesBBS.Com, Telnet:2323 SSH:2222 HTTP:80 (1:342/201)

30 Apr 21 18:32, I wrote to All:

So it seems that the utf8_850.chs I am using (Michiel's) is missing
some characters?

Replying to myself...
I suppose that I should add to the file any missing characters I need...

Carlos

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada point at Zruspa's (2:341/66.3463)

Hello Carlos,

On Saturday May 01 2021 10:41, you wrote to you:

So it seems that the utf8_850.chs I am using (Michiel's) is
missing some characters?

Replying to myself...
I suppose that I should add to the file any missing characters I
need...

As mentioned before, Golded has very limited support for UTF-8. Golded can only handle 8 bit characters internally and so some tricks and shorcuts are needed to to make it work at all. The translation from the native character set (CP850 in our case) to UTF-8 is 100% OK, but the translation from UTF-8 to CP850 only works correctly for the range U+00C0 - U+00FF. As mentioned in the prolog of of the file. This works for most of the umlauted and accented characters in use in the western world, but it does not cover the inverted exclamation mark end the inverted question mark as in use in Spanish.

You can make it work for some other 64 block of characters than U+00C0-00FF by editing the file, but that will give you other errors. Sorry, this is as good as it gets for now.



Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: ZC1 certified techno-dick (2:280/5555)

Hi, Carlos!

30  ¯à 21 18:32, Carlos Navarro -> All:

@TID: FMail-W32 2.0.1.4
@TZUTC: 0200
@CHRS: UTF-8 4
@MSGID: 2:341/66.3463 608c3120
Hi again,

¡ <- inverted exclamation mark
¿ <- inverted question mark

I myself do not see this properly displayed after posting this. I get à (a with grave) and ÿ (y with dieresis).

However if I open the exported .PKT with an editor that supports utf-8, I see them ok.

So it seems that the utf8_850.chs I am using (Michiel's) is missing some characters?

Carlos

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada point at Zruspa's (2:341/66.3463)
SEEN-BY: 221/1 6 280/464 5555 301/1 335/364 341/66 200 460/58 256 777 1124 SEEN-BY: 460/5858 4500/1 4600/140 5020/1042 5054/30
@PATH: 341/66 221/6 460/58

Have nice nights.
Brother Rabbit.

--- •®à®è¨© ᮡ¥á¥¤­¨ª ­¥ ⮫쪮 ¢­¨¬ â¥«ì­® á«ãè ¥â, ­® ¨ ¢®¢à¥¬ï ­ «¨¢ ¥â.
* Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/58.10)

01 May 21 11:30, you wrote to me:

As mentioned before, Golded has very limited support for UTF-8. Golded
can only handle 8 bit characters internally and so some tricks and shorcuts are needed to to make it work at all. The translation from
the native character set (CP850 in our case) to UTF-8 is 100% OK, but
the translation from UTF-8 to CP850 only works correctly for the
range U+00C0 - U+00FF. As mentioned in the prolog of of the file. This works for most of the umlauted and accented characters in use in the western world, but it does not cover the inverted exclamation mark end
the inverted question mark as in use in Spanish.

You can make it work for some other 64 block of characters than U+00C0-00FF by editing the file, but that will give you other errors. Sorry, this is as good as it gets for now.

Ok, I get it. Thank you for your explanation.

These two characters, especially the (inverted) opening question mark, are necessary in Spanish. So, right now Golded with utf-8 is not a good choice for writing. However it's nice that we can at least read utf-8 messages properly thanks to your other .chs file.

Carlos
--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada point at Zruspa's (2:341/66.3463)

01 May 21 21:52, I wrote to you:

These two characters, especially the (inverted) opening question mark,
are necessary in Spanish. So, right now Golded with utf-8 is not a
good choice for writing. However it's nice that we can at least read
utf-8 messages properly thanks to your other .chs file.

Sorry, after some hours away of the keyboard things got mixed up in my mind. I did not explain well.

- Reading is ok except for some characters commonly used in Spanish (¡ ? º ¸ ...)
- Writing (and exporting) is ok but when I read my posted messages those characters are not displayed properly
- When replying, those characters get mangled up in the quoted text

Carlos

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada point at Zruspa's (2:341/66.3463)

Hello Carlos,

On Sunday May 02 2021 08:24, you wrote to me:

- Reading is ok except for some characters commonly used in Spanish (á
? ú ø ...) - Writing (and exporting) is ok but when I read my posted messages those characters are not displayed properly - When replying, those characters get mangled up in the quoted text

To properly display the inverted exclamation mark and the inverted question mark you can edit the utf8_850.chs file as follows:

Replace this line:

\0 \xA0 ; 225 00E1 latin small letter a with acute

by:

\0 \xAD ; 225 00E1 Inverted exclamation mark.

And this line:

\0 \x98 ; 255 00FF latin small letter y with diaeresis

by:

\0 \xA8 ; 255 00FF Inverted question mark.


But if you do that the small a with acute and the smal y with diaresis will not display properly. The y with diaresis will not be missed, but the a acute may be a problem for you. It is a trade off...

The proper solution would be a rewrite of Golded to use Unicode internally. But that may be a bridge too far.




Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: ZC1 certified techno-dick (2:280/5555)

02 May 21 10:18, you wrote to me:

To properly display the inverted exclamation mark and the inverted question mark you can edit the utf8_850.chs file as follows:

[...]

But if you do that the small a with acute and the smal y with diaresis will not display properly. The y with diaresis will not be missed, but
the a acute may be a problem for you. It is a trade off...

Thank you so much, Michiel!

Just tested it. I'll keep the "small a with acute" line untouched -- it is essential in Spanish. I can live without the inverted exclamation mark (in fact many people omit it nowadays), but it is great to have the opening question mark.

The proper solution would be a rewrite of Golded to use Unicode internally. But that may be a bridge too far.

A pity...

Carlos
--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada point at Zruspa's (2:341/66.3463)

Hello Carlos,

On Sunday May 02 2021 13:08, you wrote to me:

Thank you so much, Michiel!

Just tested it. I'll keep the "small a with acute" line untouched --
it is essential in Spanish. I can live without the inverted
exclamation mark (in fact many people omit it nowadays), but it is
great to have the opening question mark.

Entonces, ¿cómo se ve esto?

The proper solution would be a rewrite of Golded to use Unicode
internally. But that may be a bridge too far.

A pity...

It is how it is. Stas Degteff used to maintain the source of Golded and he has implemented some of my suggestions to improve UTF-8 support. Such as adding a second parameter in the level specification line in the translation tables. When I asked about full UTF-8 support he said it was just too much work. Now he is not really atcive any more and no one else has taken over. It would be nice if we could find someone willing and able to to do it, but I fear it is not realistic to hope for that...

20 years ago I might have had a go at it myself, but now I am tto old for such an adventure...

Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: ZC1 certified techno-dick (2:280/5555)

02 May 21 13:34, you wrote to me:

Just tested it. I'll keep the "small a with acute" line untouched
-- it is essential in Spanish. I can live without the inverted
exclamation mark (in fact many people omit it nowadays), but it
is great to have the opening question mark.

Entonces, ¿cómo se ve esto?

Se ve perfectamente. :-O :-)

Carlos

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: cyberiada point at Zruspa's (2:341/66.3463)

Hola Carlos!

03 May 21 13:58, Carlos Navarro escribió a Michiel van der Vlist:

@TID: FMail-W32 2.0.1.4
@TZUTC: 0200
@CHRS: UTF-8 4
@MSGID: 2:341/66.3463 608fe5f2
@REPLY: 2:280/5555 608e8e64
02 May 21 13:34, you wrote to me:

Just tested it. I'll keep the "small a with acute" line untouched
-- it is essential in Spanish. I can live without the inverted
exclamation mark (in fact many people omit it nowadays), but it
is great to have the opening question mark.

Entonces, ¿cómo se ve esto?

Se ve perfectamente. :-O :-)

Perfecto!

Un saludo,
Angel Ripoll
aripoll @ zruspas.org

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707 + HPT 1.9 + Binkd 1.1 en Debian
* Origin: Synchronet - bbs.zruspas.org - Zruspa's BBS - (2:341/66)