Well Musk is well on his way to having the first reasonably priced and broadband/low latency satellite internet service available to the public.

Discuss?

I'm rather excited about the possibilities.

Daniel Traechin

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Hi Daniel!

10 Jun 2020 06:15, from Daniel -> All:

Well Musk is well on his way to having the first reasonably priced and broadband/low latency satellite internet service available to the
public.

Discuss?
I'm rather excited about the possibilities.

Can you give a brief overview of the service?
Or maybe post a link?

CU, Ricsi

... Fanatic: Can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: There is a multi-legged creature crawling on you. (2:310/31)

Hello Daniel!

** On Wednesday 10.06.20 - 06:15, Daniel wrote to All:

Well Musk is well on his way to having the first reasonably priced and broadband/low latency satellite internet service available to the public.

What are the prices? The initial claims are often overly ambitious.
There are surely to be excuses for prices to rise very quickly.

Discuss?

I'm rather excited about the possibilities.

I'm not too crazy about all that junk in space, and blocking the stars.

../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.44
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

Richard Menedetter wrote to Daniel <=-

Hi Daniel!

10 Jun 2020 06:15, from Daniel -> All:

Well Musk is well on his way to having the first reasonably priced and broadband/low latency satellite internet service available to the
public.

Discuss?
I'm rather excited about the possibilities.

Can you give a brief overview of the service?
Or maybe post a link?

www.spacex.com

Daniel Traechin

... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (1:340/7)

August Abolins wrote to Daniel <=-

Hello Daniel!

** On Wednesday 10.06.20 - 06:15, Daniel wrote to All:

Well Musk is well on his way to having the first reasonably priced and broadband/low latency satellite internet service available to the public.

What are the prices? The initial claims are often overly ambitious.
There are surely to be excuses for prices to rise very quickly.

I don't know yet. The difference here, if you didn't know, is that the rockets are being reused. The main booster detaches from the rocket and lands itself on a barge in the ocean. The barge returns to port. They clean the rocket, inspect it, and reuse it. Before spacex made these goals, any launch into space fell in the hundreds-of-millions to accomplish. Now, with reusable rockets, this isn't the case anymore. The cost of each launch is 10% of what it was a decade ago. The 60 satellites he sent last week bring the number close to 500. They're fully autonomous, they detect incoming debris for avoidance, and will deorbit when they reach 'end of life.' They are using ion rockets to accomplish this.

The concept of the technology is to provide inexpensive broadband internet to the most remote reaches in the world. I can see why you'd be pessimistic, but Musk's track record is pretty solid. I see no other company out there driving innovation like this.

Discuss?

I'm rather excited about the possibilities.

I'm not too crazy about all that junk in space, and blocking the stars.

I wouldn't call them junk, but then I tend to agree with you. Spacex is the first company to deorbit their satellites when they reach end-of-life. As such, they won't be contributing to the existing cloud of 100,000+ relics floating forever in orbit. Modern technology has become reliant on satellite technology and for good reason.

Daniel Traechin
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Win32
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Hi Daniel!

10 Jun 2020 21:33, from Daniel -> Richard Menedetter:

Well Musk is well on his way to having the first reasonably
priced and broadband/low latency satellite internet service
available to the public.

Can you give a brief overview of the service?
Or maybe post a link?

www.spacex.com

Sorry ... I could not find any price information for their satellite service there.

I wanted to compare to other Sat Internet services.

Eg. sat internet from our incumbent telco:
45 EUR for 22 MBit/s down 6 MBit/s up with 10 GB traffic per month
60 EUR for 30/6 with 20 GB/month
90 EUR for 30/6 with 60 GB&month
150 EUR for 50/6 with 150 GB/month

How much more reasonably priced is the Space X offering?

When going low earth orbit you gain better latency but pay with incredibly higher cost.
(you need a hackload more of satellites)

CU, Ricsi

... I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: A new cemetery opened in town: folks are dying to enter. (2:310/31)

Richard Menedetter wrote to Daniel <=-

Hi Daniel!

10 Jun 2020 21:33, from Daniel -> Richard Menedetter:

Well Musk is well on his way to having the first reasonably
priced and broadband/low latency satellite internet service
available to the public.

Can you give a brief overview of the service?
Or maybe post a link?

www.spacex.com

Sorry ... I could not find any price information for their satellite service there.

I wanted to compare to other Sat Internet services.

Eg. sat internet from our incumbent telco:
45 EUR for 22 MBit/s down 6 MBit/s up with 10 GB traffic per month
60 EUR for 30/6 with 20 GB/month
90 EUR for 30/6 with 60 GB&month
150 EUR for 50/6 with 150 GB/month

I read somewhere that it will be about $80 US/month for unlimited up/down but I could be wrong. Musk has been rather open about how American broadband providers treat bandwidth as a commodity while in other places they don't. This will also make it easier to provide access to the existing network of electric cars his Tesla company is selling.

How much more reasonably priced is the Space X offering?

When going low earth orbit you gain better latency but pay with
incredibly higher cost. (you need a hackload more of satellites)

Typically yes. The services you speak of have a much smaller subset of satellites. The largest provider only has about 60 satellites in orbit. Currently, SpaceX has 480. Musk wants 20,000 satellites in low earth orbit and offer worldwide (oceanic, polar) service. At this rate, there will be complete coverage for North America by the end of next year. They intend to broaden those services as they launch more satellites.

They're achieving this due to the development of reusable rockets. The last launch was done on a booster that has been used six times.

They're initiating beta testing soon with one million users in the US along the northern states where service will be most reliable with the network they currently have.

Another difference is the satellite type. The previous services use large, hulking satellites that require a Titan rocket to launch. That's a 250-400 million dollar launch. The spacex rocket is a 20 million dollar launch and they're sending 60 blades at a time. Quite a difference.

I'm hoping there's room for telecom. I've been using a satellite phone for over a year now and it would be nice to have a smaller device. If he can offer telecom on his satellite internet platform, then I'd be completely happy to switch.

Daniel Traechin

... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
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Hello Richard!

** On Thursday 11.06.20 - 10:10, Richard Menedetter wrote to Daniel:

Sorry ... I could not find any price information for their satellite service there.

:( Likewise. It just seems suspicious that he got away with the project without actually stating what the price of using the service would be to a customer. Wouldn't the bottom line price be the logical concern before tossing 1000's of more space junk up there that can put other people at
the risk of falling debris?

How much more reasonably priced is the Space X offering?

I have to wonder too. I think the use of the satellite tech will
eventually be promoted as a premium service thus higher than current
prices for the same bandwidth.

For example, the current home satellite-dish solution was heavily promoted
as "a solution at last!" for rural communities. The initial signup cost seemed reasonable. Some installations offered free hardware setup, but the equipment for the home wasn't cheap. Now, many years later, the sign up
and equioment cost is a bit lower, but only for the first 3 months. This kind of presentation of "affordability" is misleading.

When going low earth orbit you gain better latency but pay with
incredibly higher cost. (you need a hackload more of satellites)

I just spotted "720 satellites for total coverage in 2020" in wikipedia.
Then its 1584 by 2021-2022.

And now I read that Daniel stated that Musk want's 20,000 of things in the sky.


../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.44
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

August Abolins wrote to Richard Menedetter <=-

Hello Richard!

** On Thursday 11.06.20 - 10:10, Richard Menedetter wrote to Daniel:

Sorry ... I could not find any price information for their satellite service there.

:( Likewise. It just seems suspicious that he got away with the project without actually stating what the price of using the service would be
to a customer. Wouldn't the bottom line price be the logical concern before tossing 1000's of more space junk up there that can put other people at the risk of falling debris?

They're not junk if they serve a purpose and especially if they deorbit when done.

And on the price, it will be a worldwide service and would be open to a larger subscriber base than a traditional provider. It would be much easier to provide an inexpensive service when spreading the cost to a larger base of customers. This is why many areas of the US lack broadband internet. The providers don't see a value of laying fiber in rural areas that are so underpopulated that they'd never get a return of investment.

How much more reasonably priced is the Space X offering?

I have to wonder too. I think the use of the satellite tech will eventually be promoted as a premium service thus higher than current prices for the same bandwidth.

Current satellite offerings are super expensive particularly due to the cost of the satellites and the launch cost. They are also high latency and slow speed. I have friends living in the mountains who had it and were forced to ditch it in favor of really slow hotspot service. I send him dvd's of linux every few months so he can patch his computers.

For example, the current home satellite-dish solution was heavily
promoted as "a solution at last!" for rural communities. The initial signup cost seemed reasonable. Some installations offered free hardware setup, but the equipment for the home wasn't cheap. Now, many years
later, the sign up and equioment cost is a bit lower, but only for the first 3 months. This kind of presentation of "affordability" is misleading.

SpaceX's solution will be a 'ufo on a stick.' No dish needed.

I just spotted "720 satellites for total coverage in 2020" in
wikipedia. Then its 1584 by 2021-2022.

And now I read that Daniel stated that Musk want's 20,000 of things in
the sky.

That would be an eventual goal, but I may be wrong on the number. I know it's in the tens-of-thousands and recently got approval for more. The satellites are really small compared to the ones you normally see in orbit. Each no larger than my computer desk and less than a foot thick. Each blade have dozens of individual computers in a mesh, powered by solar, and armed with autonomous navigation.

This is the future.

Daniel Traechin
... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
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Hello Daniel!

** On Friday 12.06.20 - 09:21, Daniel wrote to August Abolins:

.. Wouldn't the bottom line price be the logical concern before
tossing 1000's of more space junk up there that can put other people
at the risk of falling debris?

They're not junk if they serve a purpose and especially if they
deorbit when done.

Sorry.. I did not mean to discredit the entire effort. But I was just thinking of those pieces as "junk" as they are decomissioned into lower
orbit and into reentry for burn up. There is a risk that some debri would remain and possibly cause damage. Coordinating a satellite back into
decent to earth and avoid stiking an airliner could be a challenge.

And on the price, it will be a worldwide service and would be open to
a larger subscriber base than a traditional provider. It would be much easier to provide an inexpensive service when spreading the cost to a larger base of customers...

It will be very interesting when the real figures pop up. Right now, I am not interested in paying more than $40/mo for any kind of internet. The concept is already overpriced as it is, imho.

Actually, it's pretty sad to witness so much attention to the internet
when ordinary phone quality seems to be diminishing year by year. I am so
fed up with the audio lag and echo that people have when they call from
their VoIP lines or cell phones. Almost every one having discontinued
their landlines in favour of lower-cost VoIP or cell phones sound like
they are all under water.

SpaceX's solution will be a 'ufo on a stick.' No dish needed.

With the orbital satellites contantly on the move, I did not expect that a user would need a fixed dish. I imagine it would work much like GPS
operates. I am impressed how quickly my portable GPS Drive-60 device can track and report the speed of my vehicle to the second in real-time.

... I know it's in the tens-of-thousands and recently got approval for more. The satellites are really small compared to the ones you
normally see in orbit. Each no larger than my computer desk and less
than a foot thick. Each blade have dozens of individual computers in a mesh, powered by solar, and armed with autonomous navigation.

Yes, it sounds like an impressive invention. I can imagine how much fun
the designers had to create them.

This is the future.

But not more than $40/mo for me!


../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.44
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

August Abolins wrote to Daniel <=-

Hello Daniel!

Sorry.. I did not mean to discredit the entire effort. But I was just thinking of those pieces as "junk" as they are decomissioned into lower orbit and into reentry for burn up. There is a risk that some debri
would remain and possibly cause damage. Coordinating a satellite back into decent to earth and avoid stiking an airliner could be a
challenge.

It would likely burn up on re-entry enough to reduce a risk, as well as considering the probability that any object would be in harm's way even if it didn't.

It will be very interesting when the real figures pop up. Right now, I
am not interested in paying more than $40/mo for any kind of internet.
The concept is already overpriced as it is, imho.

Yeah, we all have our budgets. I agree that internet is too expensive as it is.

Actually, it's pretty sad to witness so much attention to the internet when ordinary phone quality seems to be diminishing year by year. I am
so fed up with the audio lag and echo that people have when they call
from their VoIP lines or cell phones. Almost every one having
discontinued their landlines in favour of lower-cost VoIP or cell
phones sound like they are all under water.

I've seen a decline on phone use personally. Most people I know don't wish to speak on the phone. They want to text message, use social media, or talk in person.

With the orbital satellites contantly on the move, I did not expect
that a user would need a fixed dish. I imagine it would work much like
GPS operates. I am impressed how quickly my portable GPS Drive-60
device can track and report the speed of my vehicle to the second in real-time.

GPS uses far fewer satellites to triangulate your position as well.

But not more than $40/mo for me!

Fair enough.

Daniel Traechin

... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
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