Just tried using a couple of USB card adapters with my 8GB Pi4.
Both cause immediate loss of USB hard disk access. Unplugging
the offending adapter does not restore normal operation. Power
cycling puts matters right without apparent ill effect.
Dana Fri, 1 Jan 2021 20:53:25 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
<bp@www.zefox.net> napis'o:
Just tried using a couple of USB card adapters with my 8GB Pi4.
Both cause immediate loss of USB hard disk access. Unplugging the
offending adapter does not restore normal operation. Power cycling puts
matters right without apparent ill effect.
Not enough power?
On Fri, 01 Jan 2021 23:32:43 +0000, Nikolaj Lazic wrote:
Dana Fri, 1 Jan 2021 20:53:25 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
<bp@www.zefox.net> napis'o:
Just tried using a couple of USB card adapters with my 8GB Pi4.
Both cause immediate loss of USB hard disk access. Unplugging the
offending adapter does not restore normal operation. Power cycling puts
matters right without apparent ill effect.
Not enough power?
From your description it sounds as if you're booting with the adapters disconnected and the hangup occurs when one or both are connected to the
Pi. Is that what happened?
Do they work correctly when used together on another computer?
Have you got a multimeter, osscilloscope or any other way to check the
Pi's supply voltage?
-------
I tend to keep a Pi power cable modified so I can measure the voltage
across it. I run the cable through a small plastic box with terminals on
the lid, the terminals are type used on oscilloscopes or multimeters for connecting test probes. These are worth using because they're difficult
to short accidentally. The terminals on the box are connected to the red
and black wires in the power cable. So that putting a multimeter or
'scope across them lets you monitor the supply voltage going into the Pi.
I sometimes put two terminals in series on the red cable with an on/off switch on the bit of wire between the 'red' terminals: this makes current measurement easy: turn the switch off and connect a meter on the two 'red terminals to measure current. Don't wanna measure current? disconnect
meter from red terminals and turn the switch on. You mightn't use this
gadget very often, but boy is it useful to have one when you suddenly
need to check voltage or current in a USB terminated cable.
Just tried using a couple of USB card adapters with my 8GB Pi4.
Both cause immediate loss of USB hard disk access. Unplugging
the offending adapter does not restore normal operation. Power
cycling puts matters right without apparent ill effect.
Doesn't seem to matter if there's a card in the adapter or not.
The USB3-Sata adapter is a Sabrent EC-UASP. It uses the UAS
driver and hasn't caused any obvious problems on its own.
Anybody seen this, or have any idea what's going on? The card
adapters are fairly generic. Both are USB3, both have been used
before, but only in USB2 ports on Pi3's. One is no-name large-
and micro-SD only, the other is a UGreen card reader supporting TF,
SD, CF and MS cards. The slot labeled TF is the one I used with
microSD cards, didn't notice the "TF" marking till just now.
Thanks for reading!
bob prohaska
I tend to keep a Pi power cable modified so I can measure the voltage
across it. I run the cable through a small plastic box with terminals on
the lid,
On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 00:52:59 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie wrote:
I tend to keep a Pi power cable modified so I can measure the voltage
across it. I run the cable through a small plastic box with terminals
on the lid,
Or get one of the in line USB voltage and current meters.
I've a KEX KCX-017
Just tried using a couple of USB card adapters with my 8GB Pi4.
Both cause immediate loss of USB hard disk access. Unplugging
the offending adapter does not restore normal operation. Power
cycling puts matters right without apparent ill effect.
On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 09:49:46 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 00:52:59 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie wrote:That makes sense - I didn't know these are available, but should have guessed. The only disadvantage would seem to be that you'll end up with
I tend to keep a Pi power cable modified so I can measure the voltage
across it. I run the cable through a small plastic box with terminals
on the lid,
Or get one of the in line USB voltage and current meters.
a collection on different adapter cables since almost all of them seem
to have just USB-C connections.
I've a KEX KCX-017Like so many Chinese things, Amazon currently has that one marked as 'unavailable', don't know when we'll have more.
Dunno why their manufacturers persist in doing that: in makes them look
like fly-by-night chancers, but maybe that's exactly what they are.
Or get one of the in line USB voltage and current meters.
That makes sense - I didn't know these are available, but should have guessed. The only disadvantage would seem to be that you'll end up with
a collection on different adapter cables since almost all of them seem
to have just USB-C connections.
I've a KEX KCX-017
Like so many Chinese things, Amazon currently has that one marked as 'unavailable', don't know when we'll have more.
Dunno why their manufacturers persist in doing that: in makes them look
like fly-by-night chancers, but maybe that's exactly what they are.
On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 12:34:29 +0000, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 09:49:46 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 00:52:59 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie wrote:That makes sense - I didn't know these are available, but should have
I tend to keep a Pi power cable modified so I can measure the voltage
across it. I run the cable through a small plastic box with terminals
on the lid,
Or get one of the in line USB voltage and current meters.
guessed. The only disadvantage would seem to be that you'll end up with
a collection on different adapter cables since almost all of them seem
to have just USB-C connections.
I've a KEX KCX-017Like so many Chinese things, Amazon currently has that one marked as
'unavailable', don't know when we'll have more.
Dunno why their manufacturers persist in doing that: in makes them look
like fly-by-night chancers, but maybe that's exactly what they are.
Belated thought: I wonder how many of these nice toys, many of which
which seem to have just one short production run, are actually final year >projects for electronic design graduates at Chinese technical
universities.
It is a useful universal thing that you can use for anything like for
example measuring stuff in your car or whatever, without disconnecting or cutting wires etc. I would not buy something specialized for just USB.
I would not buy something specialized for just USB.
Jan Panteltje wrote:
It is a useful universal thing that you can use for anything like for
example measuring stuff in your car or whatever, without disconnecting or
cutting wires etc. I would not buy something specialized for just USB.
USB-C and a device using such connector is not like a car electronics (I
know the topic here is power supply) and besides you can not measure A or
mAs without breaking the circuit. If I am wrong let me know.
In case of data flow you need an oscilloscope as suggested by Martin >Gregorie.
Deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
you can not measure A or
mAs without breaking the circuit. If I am wrong let me know.
Hall-effect ring. (But how would you get the wire through the loop without disconnecting it..? Ok you got me.)
you can not measure A or
mAs without breaking the circuit. If I am wrong let me know.
On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 13:23:17 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:
I would not buy something specialized for just USB.Same here, but then I have an oscilloscope and at least three pocket-size >multimeters, each is part of a different toolkit for the convenience of >having a grabbit-and-go box for different purposes, e.g. model flying and >soaring, and I've already built the aforementioned breakout boxes for USB
and other connector sets.
Deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> wrote:
you can not measure A or
mAs without breaking the circuit. If I am wrong let me know.
Hall-effect ring. (But how would you get the wire through the loop without >disconnecting it..? Ok you got me.)
Model flying I did too, from 31 Dec last year in the EU you need a drone license...
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/quadcopter/index.html
have not got the license yet, so my fireworks (also forbidden now) was playing with a blue power laser 2 days ago.
On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 17:27:41 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Model flying I did too, from 31 Dec last year in the EU you need a droneDepends what you fly - I flew single channel RC for a year or to, then >discovered free flight competition models, sold the RC gear and never
license...
looked back.
No license is needed for free flight if the model weighs less than 250g.
Also lots more exercise than just standing there holding a Tx, especially
if you fly F1A (tow-line launched gliders - the faster you run before
launch the higher it gets after release).
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/quadcopter/index.htmlI'd ban those (spoken with my pilot hat on) due to all the brain-dead
have not got the license yet, so my fireworks (also forbidden now) was
playing with a blue power laser 2 days ago.
idiots who think shining them at aircraft is cool.
Oddly enough, the main use my scope got was checking the battery
condition for my Koster dethermaliser timers: These ran off a stack of
four 50mAh NiCds and were used to bring the model down out of a thermal
at the end a timed competition flight. They do this by putting 500mA
through a solenoid for 10 mS - this releases a catch on the tailplane
which puts the glider into a stable deep stall, turning it into a rigid >parachute so it drops out of the thermal and usually lands without damage.
Looking at the shape of the solenoid pulse was a great way of checking >battery condition. A good, new battery showed a nice bathtub curve- 1.5v
deep with an 8ms flat bottom and a 45 degree recovery slope. As the
battery aged, the flat bottom got shorter and the voltage drop increased, >eventually becoming a 4v deep triangle. I replaced batteries once the
voltage drop exceeded 2.5v - the time I put into designing, building and >adjusting a new model vastly exceeded the cost of a new set of batteries.
On a sunny day (Sat, 2 Jan 2021 18:05:23 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Martin
No license is needed for free flight if the model weighs less than 250g.
I think it is: "Unless it has a camera" (most of those do however).
On 01/01/2021 20:53, bob prohaska wrote:
Just tried using a couple of USB card adapters with my 8GB Pi4.
Both cause immediate loss of USB hard disk access. Unplugging
the offending adapter does not restore normal operation. Power
cycling puts matters right without apparent ill effect.
Do you have your USB hard disk mounted using the device name (/dev/sdaX)
or a disk UUID (UUID=blahblahblahblah) ?
---druck
That is an other thing, I have a scope, never used it for USB data flow
On Sat, 02 Jan 2021 19:45:37 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 2 Jan 2021 18:05:23 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Martin >>>No license is needed for free flight if the model weighs less than 250g.Nope. I've never even heard of cameras on Free flight. They're just >irrelevant because by definition the only control possible on a free
I think it is: "Unless it has a camera" (most of those do however).
flight model is an RDT: the whole point is that the model can't be
controlled after launch because what a contest is about is the art of >launching into lift and of designing/building trimming the model so it ca >self-centre in the lift patch it was launched into. Scoring is simple: at
the end of a competition the winner is the person with the highest total >flight time.
RDT = radio dethermaliser - pushing the button is an irreversable action
that overrides the onboard timer forcing it to end the flight.
We do carry reverse links though (radio trackers to aid retrieval after a >flight and some carry a GPS which modulates the tracker to send location >information back to the model's flyer. Like the tracker, this just makes >retrieval easier after the flight.
Seems like you might never have seen a free flight model. Look here: >https://www.gregorie.org/freeflight/index.html
and there'a bit on the Koster timer here: >https://www.gregorie.org/freeflight/timers/personal.html
Belated thought: I wonder how many of these nice toys, many of which
which seem to have just one short production run, are actually final year projects for electronic design graduates at Chinese technical
universities.
Nice, but being an electronics freak so to speak I want power and
control.
But free flight models seem a great way to learn about aerodynamics.
Not much of a competition person here, just experimenting. make my own
rules set my own targets.
I do not use a solenoid, but an electric motor with a screw that
releases some nuts, this gives more power with heavy loads,
at low peak current.
Programming in asm on PIC micros is fun :-) It (the hardware) does what
you tell it to do,
Understood, but as far as models are concerned, I preferred flying >control-line models to RC. For controlled flight I just climb into my >Standard Libelle and take a winch launch: just 35 seconds from first
movement to 450m and cruises at 120 kph.
But free flight models seem a great way to learn about aerodynamics.Yes, that's very true. But, a big benefit of competition flying is that
Not much of a competition person here, just experimenting. make my own
rules set my own targets.
it gets you out of the house on less than perfect days: no matter how
good or bad, the weather is the same for everybody in the contest.
Programming in asm on PIC micros is fun :-) It (the hardware) does whatI've got a PICAXE to experiment with, which I quite like apart from its >rather unpleasant unsigned integer BASIC, but I csan live with that. I do >like the built-in device controllers though, especially the servo drivers
you tell it to do,
- perfect for controlling small BEC-equipped motors and EDF (electric
ducted fan) systems.
I use an asm math library written by someone else,
so far 32 bit integer was all I needed,
(separately, the fact that this listing is out of stock is just an Amazon artifact. You can likely find the same product elsewhere under a different brand. Amazon encourages sellers to have multiple bogus brands, but you'll probably find it unbranded on ebay and Aliexpress too)
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 15:41:04 GMT
Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
I use an asm math library written by someone else,
so far 32 bit integer was all I needed,
"If you need to use floating-point arithmetic in FORTH,
you do not fully understand your application"
Not sure if it was Charles Moore or Leo Brodie who said that.
"If you need to use floating-point arithmetic in FORTH, you do not
fully understand your application"
Not sure if it was Charles Moore or Leo Brodie who said that.
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 18:38:44 +0000, Joe wrote:
"If you need to use floating-point arithmetic in FORTH, you do not
fully understand your application"
Not sure if it was Charles Moore or Leo Brodie who said that.
PICAXE BASIC is a little more limited than that: variables may be 8
or 16 bit and they are all UNSIGNED, which, I would suggest is a bit
more limiting than doing without floating point. This is the only
computer language I've used that doesn't support signed integer
values.
A fairly rapid web search failed to discover whether unsigned
arithmetic is a feature of the BASIC
or if the PIC micro-controller
only works with unsigned values. I found several low level
architecture descriptions, which all mention stuff like data storage
and register lengths, but since none of them mentioned signed
arithmetic, it seems that it isn't supported.
On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 19:36:54 -0000 (UTC)
Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:
A fairly rapid web search failed to discover whether unsigned
arithmetic is a feature of the BASIC
There is no feature list of BASIC.
No. All the arithmetic operators are signed,
I know that all so-called BASICs differ, some radically from the original >Dartmouth BASIC. I thought that the context would make it plain that I
was talking about PICAXE BASIC, which differs enough from traditional
BASICs to be given another name (labels not numbers for branch
destinations and subroutines, long names for variables, named constants, >unsigned arithmetic and comparisons, conditional statement inclusion).
On 2021-01-03, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 15:41:04 GMT
Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
I use an asm math library written by someone else,
so far 32 bit integer was all I needed,
"If you need to use floating-point arithmetic in FORTH,
you do not fully understand your application"
Not sure if it was Charles Moore or Leo Brodie who said that.
It makes sense, though, depending on your applications.
In 50 years of commercial programming, I can count the
number of times I've used floating point on the fingers
of one hand.
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 21:16:36 +0000, Joe wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 19:36:54 -0000 (UTC)
Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:
A fairly rapid web search failed to discover whether unsigned
arithmetic is a feature of the BASIC
There is no feature list of BASIC.
I know that all so-called BASICs differ, some radically from the
original Dartmouth BASIC. I thought that the context would make it
plain that I was talking about PICAXE BASIC, which differs enough
from traditional BASICs to be given another name (labels not numbers
for branch destinations and subroutines, long names for variables,
named constants, unsigned arithmetic and comparisons, conditional
statement inclusion).
No. All the arithmetic operators are signed,
Not according to the current PICAXE BASIC manual, which gives numeric
ranges for 8 and 16 bit variables capable of containing byte values
in the range 0-255 and explicitly says that byte values are unsigned.
It alao says that 16 bit variable can hold 0-65535, which implies,
though it doesn't state, that these are unsigned.
On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 22:40:33 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> declaimed the following:microcontrollers
I know that all so-called BASICs differ, some radically from thePICAXE BASIC and BASIC-Stamp BASICs were optimized for
original Dartmouth BASIC. I thought that the context would make it plain >>that I was talking about PICAXE BASIC, which differs enough from >>traditional BASICs to be given another name (labels not numbers for
branch destinations and subroutines, long names for variables, named >>constants, unsigned arithmetic and comparisons, conditional statement >>inclusion).
with GPIO. Unsigned arithmetic maps to an 8-bit GPIO control registerGPIO
quite well (especially for bit masking). The processor chips have most
of their flash memory filled with a simplified BASIC byte-code
interpreter -- one's application gets downloaded (as byte-code) to a
small EEPROM (or worse -- a large RAM) and is treated as data by the interpreter.
A BS2 has only 32-bytes of RAM, and 6 of those are dedicated to
input, output, and direction control. That leaves just 13 16-bit
variables or 26 8-bit variables. The BS2 does allow defining variables
and bit, nybble, byte, or word -- and the compiler does its best to
optimize the RAM allocation. The manual does imply that the BS2 supports signed 16-bit values -- but when outputting them (debug print) one needs
to specify the SDEC formatter, otherwise one gets an unsigned
representation.
On 03/01/2021 19:15, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2021-01-03, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:Odd. I use it extensively. Not for money oriented stuff tho
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 15:41:04 GMT Jan Panteltje
<pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
I use an asm math library written by someone else,
so far 32 bit integer was all I needed,
"If you need to use floating-point arithmetic in FORTH,
you do not fully understand your application"
Not sure if it was Charles Moore or Leo Brodie who said that.
It makes sense, though, depending on your applications.
In 50 years of commercial programming, I can count the number of times
I've used floating point on the fingers of one hand.
On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 22:40:33 -0000 (UTC)
Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 21:16:36 +0000, Joe wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 19:36:54 -0000 (UTC)I know that all so-called BASICs differ, some radically from the
Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:
A fairly rapid web search failed to discover whether unsigned
arithmetic is a feature of the BASIC
There is no feature list of BASIC.
original Dartmouth BASIC. I thought that the context would make it
plain that I was talking about PICAXE BASIC, which differs enough from
traditional BASICs to be given another name (labels not numbers for
branch destinations and subroutines, long names for variables, named
constants, unsigned arithmetic and comparisons, conditional statement
inclusion).
No. All the arithmetic operators are signed,Not according to the current PICAXE BASIC manual, which gives numeric
ranges for 8 and 16 bit variables capable of containing byte values in
the range 0-255 and explicitly says that byte values are unsigned.
It alao says that 16 bit variable can hold 0-65535, which implies,
though it doesn't state, that these are unsigned.
Sorry, misunderstanding. I thought you were asking if PICAXE couldn't do signed because the underlying PIC processor couldn't handle signed.
Financial systems never use floating point for accuracy reasons:
consequently integers are used to hold currency amounts: sterling amounts
are held as pence, euros and dollars as cents and the equivalent
convention is used for all other currencies.
On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 11:33:43 -0000 (UTC)
Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> wrote:
Financial systems never use floating point for accuracy reasons:
consequently integers are used to hold currency amounts: sterling
amounts are held as pence, euros and dollars as cents and the
equivalent convention is used for all other currencies.
I gather that micro-cents/pence are sometimes used when interest calculations are involved and the fractions matter, I've used
milli-pence.
Fair comment - I've not run into that requirement, but most of the stuff
I worked on was financial networks and related systems. Some had multi- >currency capability, so were concerned with exchange rates rather than >interest calculation.
No problem. At least this made me look at the PIC architecture and
discover that it doesn't handle signed integers - I think its the only
system I've know of at that doesn't, so I didn't realise at first that
this limitation is in the hardware rather than a feature of the BASIC >compiler.
On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 13:58:29 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie <martin@mydomain.invalid> declaimed the following:
placesFair comment - I've not run into that requirement, but most of the stuff
I worked on was financial networks and related systems. Some had multi- >>currency capability, so were concerned with exchange rates rather than >>interest calculation.
M$ Excel "Currency" number type internally stores four decimal
(scaled 64-bit integer), even though only two places are displayed. Itprogramming
allows for the accumulation of fractional cents https://bettersolutions.com/vba/numbers/currency-data-type.htm
Other than my COBOL courses in the late 70s, my 35 year
life was pretty much all floating point data with some string
manipulation.
Satellite ephemerides, radio wave propagation/signal strength, etc.
Propellers are interesting chips... 8 simple cores running inlockstep;
each core has some internal RAM for programs (so it can be different
code in each core) written in assembler. The default mode is that the
core is loaded with a byte-code interpreter, and SPIN programs are read
from external memory. The P1 allowed one core at a time to access
external memory (in sequence); the new P2 apparently allows all 8 cores
to do memory I/O on each cycle.
Out of pure curiosity: have you any idea how much work it would be to
convert a fully debugged BS2 BASIC program into a running SPIN program?
On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 17:15:45 -0000 (UTC), Martin Gregorie ><martin@mydomain.invalid> declaimed the following:
Out of pure curiosity: have you any idea how much work it would be to >>convert a fully debugged BS2 BASIC program into a running SPIN program?
Probably a lot. One concept with the Propeller is that one assigns
cores to do what would have been an interrupt in other chips (instead of >having an interrupt, that core is in a polling loop). Also using cores for >dedicated I/O protocols. The GPIOs are shared by all cogs.
....
On 03/01/2021 19:15, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2021-01-03, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:Odd. I use it extensively. Not for money oriented stuff tho
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 15:41:04 GMT
Jan Panteltje <pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
 I use an asm math library written by someone else,
so far 32 bit integer was all I needed,
 "If you need to use floating-point arithmetic in FORTH,
 you do not fully understand your application"
Not sure if it was Charles Moore or Leo Brodie who said that.
It makes sense, though, depending on your applications.
In 50 years of commercial programming, I can count the
number of times I've used floating point on the fingers
of one hand.
Den 2021-01-04 kl. 04:17, skrev The Natural Philosopher:point_arithmetic#Computer_language_implementations>
On 03/01/2021 19:15, Charlie Gibbs wrote:Money should use Fixed type.
On 2021-01-03, Joe <joe@jretrading.com> wrote:Odd. I use it extensively. Not for money oriented stuff tho
On Sun, 03 Jan 2021 15:41:04 GMT Jan Panteltje
<pNaOnStPeAlMtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
 I use an asm math library written by someone else,
so far 32 bit integer was all I needed,
 "If you need to use floating-point arithmetic in FORTH,
 you do not fully understand your application"
Not sure if it was Charles Moore or Leo Brodie who said that.
It makes sense, though, depending on your applications.
In 50 years of commercial programming, I can count the number of times
I've used floating point on the fingers of one hand.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-
Money should use Fixed type.point_arithmetic#Computer_language_implementations>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-
Depends: Thats OK for a single currency system, but if you need to handle multi-currency, then you need at least three variables to describe a financial amount:
The Mainframes I've worked on have ALWAYS used integers for financial
values, though quite a lot of the weedier bottom-of-the-range IBM boxes
used BCD - but at least they had BCD hardware and didn't have to do >calculations entirely in software.
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