Hi there !

I'd like to install Fedora server on one of my RPi 3B+. From my
understanding, Fedora doesn't provide a pre-configured image like
Raspbian does so that either a monitor or a serial console is required
for the initial setup. Is that right?

If yes, it should be possible to fix some config files on the SD card
but I'm not really sure about what is needed to fake an entire setup. Is
there a tool to do the setup on the installed image so that I can ssh
into a configured system?

TIA

fw

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On 09/01/2021 09:18, Frank Winkler wrote:

Hi there !

I'd like to install Fedora server on one of my RPi 3B+. From my understanding, Fedora doesn't provide a pre-configured image like
Raspbian does so that either a monitor or a serial console is required
for the initial setup. Is that right?

If yes, it should be possible to fix some config files on the SD card
but I'm not really sure about what is needed to fake an entire setup. Is there a tool to do the setup on the installed image so that I can ssh
into a configured system?

you can edit all the files on the card before putting it in the pi.

You probably want at a minimum to set up static networking and if it
will use wifi, ensuring that is configured, and making sure sshd is
enabled.

Once you have it up on a fixed network address and with sshd ruuning you
can access it that way.


--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 09.01.21 10:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>you can edit all the files on the card before putting it in the pi.
>
>You probably want at a minimum to set up static networking and if it
>will use  wifi, ensuring that is configured, and making sure sshd is
>enabled.

That's clear to me but I'm wondering if fixing the network setup is
sufficient to make the Pi believe it's configured so that it's booting
and not asking questions on the console which does not exist. Wi-Fi is
not needed.

And what do I have to edit in order to simulate "systemctl enable ssh"?
I'm not talking about host keys and so on but about the service.

TIA

fw

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On 09/01/2021 10:10, Frank Winkler wrote:

On 09.01.21 10:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

t;you can edit all the files on the card before putting it in the pi.

t;You probably want at a minimum to set up static networking and if it
t;will use  wifi, ensuring that is configured, and making sure sshd is
t;enabled.

That's clear to me but I'm wondering if fixing the network setup is sufficient to make the Pi believe it's configured so that it's booting
and not asking questions on the console which does not exist. Wi-Fi is
not needed.

Don't think a pi or linux in general ever does ask questions on the
console before booting. Only potentially the boot loader, and that on a
Pi doesn't as far as I know.

I cant answer for fedora though. I used raspbian server as its better documented., Cant see the point of fedora, The Pi Zero W server after
editing the card off the pi in a reader came up on the right IP adress,
found the network and connected, and set up sshd. First time!

And what do I have to edit in order to simulate "systemctl enable ssh"?
I'm not talking about host keys and so on but about the service.

I think that on raspbian at least an empty file called ssh in /boot
directory is enough. (that's the DOS FAT partition )

The guys thought of this when they ported linux to the Pi!


--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

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On 09.01.21 11:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>Don't think a pi or linux in general  ever does ask questions on the
>console before booting. Only potentially the boot loader, and that on a
>Pi doesn't as far as I know.

With "questions", I mean all the stuff that is asked during the first
boot to do the initial setup. Doesn't the Pi do this when a screen or a
serial console is connected?

I'm very familiar with Solaris, roughly with Linux but not really with
the Pi.

>I cant answer for fedora though. I used raspbian server as its better
>documented., Cant see the point of fedora, The Pi Zero W server after
>editing the card off the pi in a reader came up on the right IP adress,
>found the network and connected, and set up sshd. First time!

I installed Raspbian lite (I don't need the desktop stuff) on the card
for a second Pi, touched the ssh file and was set. Easy. But my few
Linux knowledge is rather RH flavored than Debian so I'd prefer Fedora
on this Pi.

>I think that on raspbian at least an empty file called ssh in /boot
>directory is enough. (that's the DOS FAT partition )
>
>The guys thought of this when they ported linux to the Pi!

Yes, I know how it works on Raspbian. But I'm not sure if Fedora does it
in the same way. It would be nice if it did ;) ...

TIA

fw

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 09/01/2021 10:58, Frank Winkler wrote:

On 09.01.21 11:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

t;Don't think a pi or linux in general  ever does ask questions on the
t;console before booting. Only potentially the boot loader, and that on a
t;Pi doesn't as far as I know.

With "questions", I mean all the stuff that is asked during the first
boot to do the initial setup. Doesn't the Pi do this when a screen or a serial console is connected?

No idea. I never attached a screen or keyboard to mine, ever. Just
edited the card on my PC via a card reared plugged it in & then it worked

I'm very familiar with Solaris, roughly with Linux but not really with
the Pi.

t;I cant answer for fedora though. I used raspbian server as its better
t;documented., Cant see the point of fedora, The Pi Zero W server after
t;editing the card off the pi in a reader came up on the right IP adress,
t;found the network and connected, and set up sshd. First time!

I installed Raspbian lite (I don't need the desktop stuff) on the card
for a second Pi, touched the ssh file and was set. Easy. But my few
Linux knowledge is rather RH flavored than Debian so I'd prefer Fedora
on this Pi.

t;I think that on raspbian at least an empty file called ssh in /boot
t;directory is enough. (that's the DOS FAT partition )

t;The guys thought of this when they ported linux to the Pi!

Yes, I know how it works on Raspbian. But I'm not sure if Fedora does it
in the same way. It would be nice if it did ;) ...

I think they would have done that. It makes sense

TIA

    fw

--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 11:58:04 +0100, Frank Winkler wrote:

Yes, I know how it works on Raspbian. But I'm not sure if Fedora does it
in the same way. It would be nice if it did ;) ...

I run Fedora on but other boxen but not on my RPi.

The only questions when Fedora boots on my other machines come from the bootloader, but there can be an additional prompt - if you've encrypted a partition you'll get asked for the partition's password during the boot process.


--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

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On 09/01/2021 14:28, Martin Gregorie wrote:

On Sat, 09 Jan 2021 11:58:04 +0100, Frank Winkler wrote:

Yes, I know how it works on Raspbian. But I'm not sure if Fedora does it
in the same way. It would be nice if it did ;) ...

I run Fedora on but other boxen but not on my RPi.

The only questions when Fedora boots on my other machines come from the bootloader, but there can be an additional prompt - if you've encrypted a partition you'll get asked for the partition's password during the boot process.

And with a pi the bootloader is completely different. It sure ain't Grub!

I will bet a pint on fedora not asking questions during a pi boot. The
more pertinent issue is how it decides on the inital boot state.
Oh

Stupid Fedora

"🔗 Booting Fedora on the Raspberry Pi for the first time

Insert the SD card into the Raspberry Pi.
*Make sure you have a keyboard, mouse, network cable and monitor connected*.
Power on the Raspberry Pi.
You will see Fedora booting and eventually the "Initial setup
wizard" will appear.
Follow the wizard to set language, timezone and create users.
You should be presented with a login prompt or a getting started
guide (depending on which Desktop/SPIN you're using).
"

So you will need to patch the SD card somehow, or connect that stuff up.


No. At this point you would be advised to junk fedora and use Raspian if
you want a headless server. Even the fedora server seems to need screen
and keyboard


--
“Ideas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance"

- John K Galbraith

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Sat, 9 Jan 2021 10:18:06 +0100, Frank Winkler <usenet@f.winkler-ka.de> declaimed the following:

Hi there !

I'd like to install Fedora server on one of my RPi 3B+. From my >understanding, Fedora doesn't provide a pre-configured image like
Raspbian does so that either a monitor or a serial console is required
for the initial setup. Is that right?

I've always had to have monitor/keyboard on my R-Pis when bringing up an image for the first time...

After that, they don't need the monitor/keyboard.

Have you studied: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM/Raspberry_Pi


--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
wlfraed@ix.netcom.com http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

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On 09.01.21 16:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>"🔗 Booting Fedora on the Raspberry Pi for the first time
>
>     Insert the SD card into the Raspberry Pi.
>     *Make sure you have a keyboard, mouse, network cable and monitor
> connected*.
>     Power on the Raspberry Pi.
>     You will see Fedora booting and eventually the "Initial setup
> wizard" will appear.
>     Follow the wizard to set language, timezone and create users.
>     You should be presented with a login prompt or a getting started
> guide (depending on which Desktop/SPIN you're using).

That's what I also found and why I was asking here ;) ...

>So you will need to patch the SD card somehow, or connect that stuff up.

Of course, but I'm not sure enough what I'll need to get it running ...

>No. At this point you would be advised to junk fedora and use Raspian if
>you want a headless server. Even the fedora server seems to need screen
>and keyboard

If this is really the case, Fedora is out! The term "server" implies
headless ;) ...

I don't like Debian style so I'm looking for a RH flavored OS for the Pi
and that's why I mentioned Fedora as I've been using it on an other
machine and liked it ...

TIA

fw

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On 09.01.21 23:21, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

> I've always had to have monitor/keyboard on my R-Pis when bringing up
>an image for the first time...

Raspbian doesn't need that but I'd prefer a RH style OS ...

TIA

fw

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On 10/01/2021 12:52, Frank Winkler wrote:

On 09.01.21 16:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

t;"🔗 Booting Fedora on the Raspberry Pi for the first time

;     Insert the SD card into the Raspberry Pi.
;     *Make sure you have a keyboard, mouse, network cable and monitor
t;     connected*.
;     Power on the Raspberry Pi.
;     You will see Fedora booting and eventually the "Initial setup
t;     wizard" will appear.
;     Follow the wizard to set language, timezone and create users.     You should be presented with a login prompt or a getting started
t;     guide (depending on which Desktop/SPIN you're using).

That's what I also found and why I was asking here ;) ...

t;So you will need to patch the SD card somehow, or connect that stuff up.

Of course, but I'm not sure enough what I'll need to get it running ...

t;No. At this point you would be advised to junk fedora and use Raspian if
t;you want a headless server. Even the fedora server seems to need screen
t;and keyboard

If this is really the case, Fedora is out! The term "server" implies
headless ;) ...

Not if you are Microsost! A screen with Windows for every server!

The point is that fedora have not made it possible or at least easy to
do a *first time* headless boot, Raspbian have.

Once set up you dont need screen or keyboard on either

I don't like Debian style so I'm looking for a RH flavored OS for the Pi
and that's why I mentioned Fedora as I've been using it on an other
machine and liked it ...

Really I cant see there is any difference beyond the package management
system. I used Red Hat back in the noughties, then switched pretty
seamlessly to debian than to mint and Ubuntu and Raspian.

Especially when using it headless without a GUI.

But its your choice as to *which* long road you take, getting to like
Debian or installing a monitor and kb on your first fedora server boot...

I have merely informed you that the short cut does not exist...as far as
my web search has taken me.

--
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich
people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason
they are poor.

Peter Thompson

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 14:08:48 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 10/01/2021 12:52, Frank Winkler wrote:

On 09.01.21 16:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Really I cant see there is any difference beyond the package management system. I used Red Hat back in the noughties, then switched pretty
seamlessly to debian than to mint and Ubuntu and Raspian.

Especially when using it headless without a GUI.

But its your choice as to *which* long road you take, getting to like
Debian or installing a monitor and kb on your first fedora server
boot...

I have merely informed you that the short cut does not exist...as far as
my web search has taken me.

I use both
Fedora on my laptop
rasipian on my raspberry Pi's
& cent os on equipment I maintain

the only significant difference is the package management systems & I
usually create a .bash_aliases file so I can use the same commands
regardless of the system upgrade, install, add & remove are the only
package management commands I need normally anyway.

EG

Raspian

alias upgrade="sudo apt update && sudo apt full-upgrade

Fedora

alias upgrade="sudo dnf upgrade"

simple




--
Let us treat men and women well;
Treat them as if they were real;
Perhaps they are.
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 10.01.21 15:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>Not if you are Microsost! A screen with Windows for every server! Micro-what? Never heard of anything like that and never had a amchine
with such a trash! :)

>The point is that fedora have not made it possible or at least easy to
>do a *first time* headless boot, Raspbian have.

Obviously. RIP, Fedora - at least for my Pis.
Is there a CentOS port for RPi? Or ... something apart from Linux? Maybe
of the *BSDs?
Looks like I'll have to search again ...

>Really I cant see there is any difference beyond the package management
>system. I used Red Hat back in the noughties, then switched pretty
>seamlessly to debian than to mint and Ubuntu and Raspian.

It's not only the package stuff. Most of the config files are different,
none of my scripts will work, etc.

>But its your choice as to *which* long road you take, getting to like
>Debian or installing a monitor and kb on your first fedora server boot...

I don't like any of them.

TIA

fw

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Frank Winkler wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

fedora have not made it possible or at least easy to
do a *first time* headless boot

Obviously. RIP, Fedora - at least for my Pis.

With the SD card in a PC

edit the config.txt to enable the UART

edit`the extlinux.conf to set ttyS1 as the console

boot the Pi

login over serial and configure wifi or wired networking and then switch
to that.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 13:52:37 +0100, Frank Winkler <usenet@f.winkler-ka.de> declaimed the following:

If this is really the case, Fedora is out! The term "server" implies
headless ;) ...

It likely is... ONCE CONFIGURED INITIALLY. Subsequent access could be done via SSH.

All the <deleted> stuff is for /first boot/ of a clean installation.

No difference really from installing a direct Debian download on most systems


--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
wlfraed@ix.netcom.com http://wlfraed.microdiversity.freeddns.org/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 10.01.21 19:32, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

>No difference really from installing a direct Debian download on most
>systems

I like this Raspbian approach with a generic pre-configuration and I'd appreciate to see this on other Pi systems, too. They could integrate an
option for the ssh flag file into the Raspberry imager.

Or maybe I'll take some time and play with a scripted setup of the SD
card. Something like a poor man's Solaris JumpStart ;) ...

TIA

fw

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 20:01:15 +0100, Frank Winkler wrote:

On 10.01.21 19:32, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

>No difference really from installing a direct Debian download on most
>systems

I like this Raspbian approach with a generic pre-configuration and I'd appreciate to see this on other Pi systems, too. They could integrate an option for the ssh flag file into the Raspberry imager.

I thought that a long while ago Raspbian downloads had been modified to
boot up with sshd running by default but according to this:

http://www.penguintutor.com/linux/raspberrypi-headless

that tweak was later removed because security: this is probably current information since that page was last updated this year (2021).

It explains how to re-enable starting sshd at boot time (very simple:
just create one empty file in the boot partition: since thats a FAT32
partition it can be done using a PC running either Linux or Windows.

However, the above probably doesn't help with the first Fedora boot.

So, to the OP: just grit your teeth, borrow a USB keyboard and an HDMI
screen, plug 'em in and do that first Fedora boot and make sure you
enable sshd, shut down, give the keyboard and screen back and reboot the
Pi. You should now be able to login as user 'pi' via SSH from another
Linux box or from a Windows one running PuTTY.



--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

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On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 14:08:48 +0000
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 10/01/2021 12:52, Frank Winkler wrote:

If this is really the case, Fedora is out! The term "server"
implies headless ;) ...

Not if you are Microsost! A screen with Windows for every server!

Though again, it's normally possible to disconnect keyboard and monitor
(and mouse) once the thing is running. Though better just to leave
them, for when you need to investigate why a reboot is taking so long...

But they do insist that their server OSes use a GUI.

--
Joe

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On 10/01/2021 17:24, Frank Winkler wrote:

On 10.01.21 15:08, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

.

t;But its your choice as to *which* long road you take, getting to like
t;Debian or installing a monitor and kb on your first fedora server

boot...

I don't like any of them.

Life is rough, tough, and *desperately* unjust, so you had better start
getting used to it.



--
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
rule.
– H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

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On 10/01/2021 18:32, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

All the <deleted> stuff is for/first boot/ of a clean installation.

No difference really from installing a direct Debian download on most systems

VERY different from Raspian
There you can set all that up by editing the card before first boot.


--
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
rule.
– H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 10/01/2021 19:01, Frank Winkler wrote:

On 10.01.21 19:32, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:

t;No difference really from installing a direct Debian download on most
t;systems

I like this Raspbian approach with a generic pre-configuration and I'd appreciate to see this on other Pi systems, too. They could integrate an option for the ssh flag file into the Raspberry imager.

Nothing stops you from taking the card out of a running PI and dding it
to a file...and then cloning it endlessly.

Or maybe I'll take some time and play with a scripted setup of the SD
card. Something like a poor man's Solaris JumpStart ;) ...

comes to nearly the same thing. Since Raspian has a preconfigured user,
all you need for an Ethernet Pi is IP address setup and ssh enabled.

If its wifi, then you need SSID and passkey as well.

Once you have ssh access setting up a better user, negotiating proper
ssh keys, making sure date, time and locale are all configured - is not
hard

You could probably hack a fedora image to do that as well. Almost
certainly, the 'first time boot setup' is some sort of script that could
be disabled

And having done that and booted it once, you could clone the setup for
next time...

TIA

    fw

--
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
rule.
– H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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